Ditch the damn Phantom Runner rule!

[D-train]

Extra innings games should be allowed to be played straight through 11 innings (one could argue thru 10th or 12th).
Under my scenario, the courtesy runner is on 1st base, not 2nd, starting in the 12th. The 13th innings and beyond, the runner starts at 2nd.
If you want to further bastardize the game, in the 14th inning the phantom runner starts at 3rd base.

I can no longer imagine any of this if pitchers were still required to bat. That has been a good rule change, especially allowing Mariner DH's such as Refsnyder and Garver to add significant and consistent and dynamic extra punch to the M's lineup on a daily basis.

Good ideas. The pictures never hit an extra innings they were always pinch hit for.

[mostonmike]

The phantom runner is a necessary evil of the modern game. Baseball has always evolved — people hated night games, interleague play was heresy, and the idea of pitchers not batting was treated like sacrilege. Every era thinks its changes are the end of the world.

The extra‑innings rule is just baseball’s version of overtime or a penalty shoot‑out: an artificial mechanism to force a result when the teams couldn’t sort it out in regulation.

As long as it stays out of the postseason, fine. But when the playoffs are expanded further, don’t be surprised to see it come in there as well.

And its only the losers who complain. Maybe our manager and his piles of data develops a strategy for winning these games instead?

[HawkandMariner88]

The phantom runner is a necessary evil of the modern game. Baseball has always evolved — people hated night games, interleague play was heresy, and the idea of pitchers not batting was treated like sacrilege. Every era thinks its changes are the end of the world.

The extra‑innings rule is just baseball’s version of overtime or a penalty shoot‑out: an artificial mechanism to force a result when the teams couldn’t sort it out in regulation.

As long as it stays out of the postseason, fine. But when the playoffs are expanded further, don’t be surprised to see it come in there as well.

And its only the losers who complain. Maybe our manager and his piles of data develops a strategy for winning these games instead?

Those don't have anything to do with in game play. I would go back to old school in a hearbeat.

[D-train]

The phantom runner is a necessary evil of the modern game. Baseball has always evolved — people hated night games, interleague play was heresy, and the idea of pitchers not batting was treated like sacrilege. Every era thinks its changes are the end of the world.

The extra‑innings rule is just baseball’s version of overtime or a penalty shoot‑out: an artificial mechanism to force a result when the teams couldn’t sort it out in regulation.

As long as it stays out of the postseason, fine. But when the playoffs are expanded further, don’t be surprised to see it come in there as well.

And its only the losers who complain. Maybe our manager and his piles of data develops a strategy for winning these games instead?

Those don't have anything to do with in game play. I would go back to old school in a hearbeat.

First two don't but the DH sure does....

[Hy Feiber]

The phantom runner is a necessary evil of the modern game. Baseball has always evolved — people hated night games, interleague play was heresy, and the idea of pitchers not batting was treated like sacrilege. Every era thinks its changes are the end of the world.

The extra‑innings rule is just baseball’s version of overtime or a penalty shoot‑out: an artificial mechanism to force a result when the teams couldn’t sort it out in regulation.

As long as it stays out of the postseason, fine. But when the playoffs are expanded further, don’t be surprised to see it come in there as well.

And its only the losers who complain. Maybe our manager and his piles of data develops a strategy for winning these games instead?

Those don't have anything to do with in game play. I would go back to old school in a hearbeat.

I see somebody here thinks you’re a loser if you don’t want games to end in an artificial manner, by
manufacturing a base runner out of nowhere.

Like T-ball?

God forbid if these pampered multimillionaires have to play a few damn extra innings, the poor dears.

These dumb rules make a mockery of the traditional game, way too much micromanaging. Let it go 20 innings for all I care.

To make it even dumber, why don’t you call it a tie after nine innings?

I repeat, the game is long because they got too many darn pitchers in one game.

When the starting pitcher actually went nine innings, the games were near two hours.

[Hy Feiber]

The phantom runner is a necessary evil of the modern game. Baseball has always evolved — people hated night games, interleague play was heresy, and the idea of pitchers not batting was treated like sacrilege. Every era thinks its changes are the end of the world.

The extra‑innings rule is just baseball’s version of overtime or a penalty shoot‑out: an artificial mechanism to force a result when the teams couldn’t sort it out in regulation.

As long as it stays out of the postseason, fine. But when the playoffs are expanded further, don’t be surprised to see it come in there as well.

And its only the losers who complain. Maybe our manager and his piles of data develops a strategy for winning these games instead?

Those don't have anything to do with in game play. I would go back to old school in a hearbeat.

I agree completely.

[Hy Feiber]

The phantom runner is a necessary evil of the modern game. Baseball has always evolved — people hated night games, interleague play was heresy, and the idea of pitchers not batting was treated like sacrilege. Every era thinks its changes are the end of the world.

The extra‑innings rule is just baseball’s version of overtime or a penalty shoot‑out: an artificial mechanism to force a result when the teams couldn’t sort it out in regulation.

As long as it stays out of the postseason, fine. But when the playoffs are expanded further, don’t be surprised to see it come in there as well.

And its only the losers who complain. Maybe our manager and his piles of data develops a strategy for winning these games instead?

None of these rule changes are obviously “the end of the world,” that’s a red herring, but many cheapen the game as it was intended to be played.

Some change is not good at all.

[HawkandMariner88]

pitchers are supposed to hit. Sorry people don't like that idea. If your not willing tgo stay the whole game don't go. Real fans stay the whole game. Between the time clock & the ghost runner they've severally cheapened this game. Ted Williams would be ashamed.

[Hy Feiber]

pitchers are supposed to hit. Sorry people don't like that idea. If your not willing tgo stay the whole game don't go. Real fans stay the whole game. Between the time clock & the ghost runner they've severally cheapened this game. Ted Williams would be ashamed.

Now That’s a fan of Real Baseball.

Change for the sake of change is not a good idea.

[mostonmike]

pitchers are supposed to hit. Sorry people don't like that idea. If your not willing tgo stay the whole game don't go. Real fans stay the whole game. Between the time clock & the ghost runner they've severally cheapened this game. Ted Williams would be ashamed.

Now That’s a fan of Real Baseball.

Change for the sake of change is not a good idea.

I get that you both think that the changes cheapen the game you love so much. I understand that nostalgia is romantic. But romance doesn't pay the bills, nor does it fill stadiums.

I always dislike the 'real fan' card being played—how do people even qualify? I know I can't possibly be one based on the freak of nature of being born 4,000 miles away from the country in which it's been popularised. I can live with that. Although, since the game evolved from Rounders, I’m technically the true fan as I was playing the 'original' version in school PE lessons in the 70s

Is it based on proximity to the stadium, or how many stay until the bottom of the 9th in a 14—3 defeat? We get it in soccer over here as well; people claiming the game is a 'shadow of its former self' while they sit in sell-out crowds watching the best athletes on earth. It’s a strange form of snobbery to prefer a dying product just because it’s 'pure.'

The brutal reality was that the 'pure baseball' product was sadly failing. The change wasn't for the sake of change or to 'cheapen' anything—it was done because the 'pure' game was in a death spiral. Crowds fell significantly: from 79 million in 2007 to below 70 million by 2017. That’s a catastrophic 10%+ decline and it had to be addressed.

Since the rule changes? Attendance has been above 70 million for the last three straight years, including 71.4 million in 2025. The data doesn't lie. People are coming back to the parks, even if it means the 'purists' have to get home 30 minutes earlier.