Ditch the damn Phantom Runner rule!

[mostonmike]

The phantom runner is a necessary evil of the modern game. Baseball has always evolved — people hated night games, interleague play was heresy, and the idea of pitchers not batting was treated like sacrilege. Every era thinks its changes are the end of the world.

The extra‑innings rule is just baseball’s version of overtime or a penalty shoot‑out: an artificial mechanism to force a result when the teams couldn’t sort it out in regulation.

As long as it stays out of the postseason, fine. But when the playoffs are expanded further, don’t be surprised to see it come in there as well.

And its only the losers who complain. Maybe our manager and his piles of data develops a strategy for winning these games instead?

Those don't have anything to do with in game play. I would go back to old school in a hearbeat.

I see somebody here thinks you’re a loser if you don’t want games to end in an artificial manner, by
manufacturing a base runner out of nowhere.

Like T-ball?

God forbid if these pampered multimillionaires have to play a few damn extra innings, the poor dears.

These dumb rules make a mockery of the traditional game, way too much micromanaging. Let it go 20 innings for all I care.

To make it even dumber, why don’t you call it a tie after nine innings?

I repeat, the game is long because they got too many darn pitchers in one game.

When the starting pitcher actually went nine innings, the games were near two hours.

To clarify the bit in bold, my intention was to say only the losing team in extra inning complains. The winning team loves it. I perhaps didn't make that clear when I read it back. Like all sudden death deciders (eg penalty shootouts in soccer) - the losing teams often take issue with the tie-breaking system when it goes against them. I described it as a "necessary evil" - which is not a ringing endorsement is it?

Sorry if you took that to say I was calling you a loser....

BUT if that's the system we better get our act together and start learning how to play it more effectively.

[Sibelius Hindemith]

I'd like to see them resolve games where, after 9 innings of play, neither team has scored more or less runs than the other by having their managers compete at rock paper scissors.

[mostonmike]

I'd like to see them resolve games where, after 9 innings of play, neither team has scored more or less runs than the other by having their managers compete at rock paper scissors.

Something nearly that bizarre happened in "football"

In the 1968 European Championship semi-final, Italy advanced to the final after a 0-0 draw with the Soviet Union following extra time. With penalty shootouts not yet adopted by UEFA, Italian captain Giacinto Facchetti called "tails" correctly, sending Italy through to face Yugoslavia.

[D-train]

I'd like to see them resolve games where, after 9 innings of play, neither team has scored more or less runs than the other by having their managers compete at rock paper scissors.

1 round or best two of three?

[D-train]

pitchers are supposed to hit. Sorry people don't like that idea. If your not willing tgo stay the whole game don't go. Real fans stay the whole game. Between the time clock & the ghost runner they've severally cheapened this game. Ted Williams would be ashamed.

Now That’s a fan of Real Baseball.

Change for the sake of change is not a good idea.

I get that you both think that the changes cheapen the game you love so much. I understand that nostalgia is romantic. But romance doesn't pay the bills, nor does it fill stadiums.

I always dislike the 'real fan' card being played—how do people even qualify? I know I can't possibly be one based on the freak of nature of being born 4,000 miles away from the country in which it's been popularised. I can live with that. Although, since the game evolved from Rounders, I’m technically the true fan as I was playing the 'original' version in school PE lessons in the 70s

Is it based on proximity to the stadium, or how many stay until the bottom of the 9th in a 14—3 defeat? We get it in soccer over here as well; people claiming the game is a 'shadow of its former self' while they sit in sell-out crowds watching the best athletes on earth. It’s a strange form of snobbery to prefer a dying product just because it’s 'pure.'

The brutal reality was that the 'pure baseball' product was sadly failing. The change wasn't for the sake of change or to 'cheapen' anything—it was done because the 'pure' game was in a death spiral. Crowds fell significantly: from 79 million in 2007 to below 70 million by 2017. That’s a catastrophic 10%+ decline and it had to be addressed.

Since the rule changes? Attendance has been above 70 million for the last three straight years, including 71.4 million in 2025. The data doesn't lie. People are coming back to the parks, even if it means the 'purists' have to get home 30 minutes earlier.

Well said, Mike. Who wants to do anything for more than 4 hours. That is why I never understood why they landed on 18 holes of golf. I was always cooked and done physically AND mentally by the time I got to the 15th tee. I think 12 holes would have been perfect especially for bogey and worse golfers.

[D-train]

And who in the hell wants to watch pitchers try to hit a baseball. Can't believe it took the National League almost 50 year to come to its senses.

[Hy Feiber]

pitchers are supposed to hit. Sorry people don't like that idea. If your not willing tgo stay the whole game don't go. Real fans stay the whole game. Between the time clock & the ghost runner they've severally cheapened this game. Ted Williams would be ashamed.

Now That’s a fan of Real Baseball.

Change for the sake of change is not a good idea.

I get that you both think that the changes cheapen the game you love so much. I understand that nostalgia is romantic. But romance doesn't pay the bills, nor does it fill stadiums.

I always dislike the 'real fan' card being played—how do people even qualify? I know I can't possibly be one based on the freak of nature of being born 4,000 miles away from the country in which it's been popularised. I can live with that. Although, since the game evolved from Rounders, I’m technically the true fan as I was playing the 'original' version in school PE lessons in the 70s

Is it based on proximity to the stadium, or how many stay until the bottom of the 9th in a 14—3 defeat? We get it in soccer over here as well; people claiming the game is a 'shadow of its former self' while they sit in sell-out crowds watching the best athletes on earth. It’s a strange form of snobbery to prefer a dying product just because it’s 'pure.'

The brutal reality was that the 'pure baseball' product was sadly failing. The change wasn't for the sake of change or to 'cheapen' anything—it was done because the 'pure' game was in a death spiral. Crowds fell significantly: from 79 million in 2007 to below 70 million by 2017. That’s a catastrophic 10%+ decline and it had to be addressed.

Since the rule changes? Attendance has been above 70 million for the last three straight years, including 71.4 million in 2025. The data doesn't lie. People are coming back to the parks, even if it means the 'purists' have to get home 30 minutes earlier.

There’s nothing wrong with the game of baseball as it was traditionally played, but the reality is that American society has changed drastically in the last 50 years or so, more and more people especially kids don’t have the required attention span. We did when we were sitting in the stands for a 6 hour doubleheader.

Baseball is zen, while the average baseball fan can’t handle one minute of silence without music blasting all over the place, and insipid Hydro races.

[Hy Feiber]

Clearly, any kid who was raised in the era of high speed Internet, necessarily doesn’t have the attention span of someone raised in the 60s, his brain is wired differently, he expects results immediately.

I actually think the modern game is boring, not due to the length of the game, but because things are choreographed in advance, virtually everyone knows the guy’s not gonna pitch a complete game even if he’s pitching a no-hitter.

The manager doesn’t manage, he knows in advance basically how long the starting pitcher is gonna go based on pitch counts, who’s gonna pitch the sixth, the seventh, the eighth, and then the ninth.

The situation of the particular game is irrelevant.

Also, there’s very little small ball, which involves a lot of strategy, that’s for sissies. And that doesn’t give you the big bucks.

Hitting behind the runner, who cares, suicide squeeze no way, how about the hidden ball trick, oh you can’t do that, that’s showing up the other team.

But these unpredictable actions would wake up the fans, mindlessly watching the Hydro races.

[mostonmike]

Completely agree with both of your last 2 posts. What I suppose you have to do is decide where you draw the line and say enough is enough? Sadly that day will come, hopefully for the forum thats many years away.

I "walked away" from Premier League football in 2011 as I had seen enough. I had been a match going fan since 1985. The game had gone from its roots and priced out the working class as we would say. Now if you handed me a season ticket for free or even paid me I wouldn't take it.

I have a passing interest only in the EPL these days. There are plenty of other things to spend time on. But hopefully you can put up with it until the Mariners reach the WS. Even if games are reduced to 7 innings by then, its the hope that kills eh?

[Sports Hernia]

Don’t like the ghost runner rule but manager Dan needs to adjust to it and play small ball.