So this core appears solid...

[D-train]

That core may be solid but I agree we need more than solid to reach the promised land. Will need the prospects to be better than solid.

[IStillLoveTheMs]

I think this depends on your definition of a core. I tend to think that most of these guys are what you want to add around a core on a contender. A contender needs a core of bonafide stars. I am talking top 20 in the game type players. None of the guys on this list are that nor will they be in My opinion. Vogey is leading the team in fWAR and he is ranked 85th in Baseball. They are nice pieces but not really a core. We don't really have a true number 3 hitter, a guy who is going to contend for a batting title or an ace pitcher. If you don't have that, you don't have a core. This team needs to develop a couple of TOR Starters and a Middle of the Order Bat out of the farm system or it is going nowhere.

I think we're kind of in the position where the Astros were before they began to contend. They had a solid core of players who evolved into superstar players when the team was ready to win.

[Captain 97]

I Don't see it.
in 2014 (the last year that the Astros were under .500) Altuve hit .341 and Dallas Keuchel had a 2.93 ERA in 200 innings. We don't have anything close to either one of those guys on this squad.

[Hanjag]

I think this depends on your definition of a core. I tend to think that most of these guys are what you want to add around a core on a contender. A contender needs a core of bonafide stars. I am talking top 20 in the game type players. None of the guys on this list are that nor will they be in My opinion. Vogey is leading the team in fWAR and he is ranked 85th in Baseball. They are nice pieces but not really a core. We don't really have a true number 3 hitter, a guy who is going to contend for a batting title or an ace pitcher. If you don't have that, you don't have a core. This team needs to develop a couple of TOR Starters and a Middle of the Order Bat out of the farm system or it is going nowhere.

I do and don't agree with you.
Haniger is hurt but last year he put up 6 WAR. He can play any OF position.

Omar Narvaez 130 OPS+ from your catcher.

Domingo's WAR is down because of the sloppy play in LF a transition from his normal RF but he had a .850 OPS+.

JP 39 games 1.8 WAR .277 .347 .466 .814 119 7.2 WAR pace small sample size but there is a lot to say
he should be playing like this.

1B/DH V-Bach 137 OPS+

Marco and Kikuchi I like them both. I think Kikuchi is transitioning from Japan and will improve and basically just went through a slump. 1st 11 starts 3.43 ERA bad stretch but came back with a good one right before the break 7 innings 2 runs.
Marco 2018 103 ERA+ 4.0 ERA but a 3.43 fip, 103 ERA+ this year and again a lower fip than ERA. Looking at his game log 1st 10 games 3.18 ERA 3 of his next 4 starts he gets lit-up and now he has re-established himself as more of a #2-3

Disagree if you will but having 2 guys that flash long stretches of well above average starting and back it up with lower fip than ERA and the sloppy Defense probably has masked their status.

Grow a #1 and trade/sign another and get another 2 or 3 from the farm and you have a rotation (1,1,2,2,3) or some such.

Now that you have tuned out my long story post:

1st. I do agree with you in that having a #1 is absolutely key to a core.
2nd. MVP possibles and multiples of them. Haniger would be one, JP could be #2 if he is really going to hit 1B/DH V-Bach 137 OPS+, but you are really needing a few of (Kelenic, White, Julio, Fraley and others especially all the investment in pitching to fill this aspect.
3rd which is really already said the core needs to have the prospects to develop, stay healthy, and noy just make it to MLB but to excel. That is a lot to ask but ask I will.

[Hanjag]

I Don't see it.
in 2014 (the last year that the Astros were under .500) Altuve hit .341 and Dallas Keuchel had a 2.93 ERA in 200 innings. We don't have anything close to either one of those guys on this squad.

Trap snapped closed:
I thought about Houston as the poster boy for rebuilds and Altuve in particular
2011 to 2013 altuve hit 81, 101, and 89 OPS+ over 356 games and tallied 3 WAR over that stretch. Nobody on an Astro's forum was claiming MVP candidate at that point.
2013 Astros in the starting 9 only Altuve(89 OPS+) and Castro were the names. Castro had a 130 OPS+ but would drop off and never have another season with even a 100 OPS+ until this year. Marwin G had a 58 OPS+ on the bench, there is a number of early 20's guys that disappeared.

Keuchel had a 2.93 ERA in 14' but in 2013 staff ace Keuchel had a 78 OPS+ along with Brad Peacock, Jordan Lyles was their 22 year old 3 with a 70s OPS+.

In all fairness with hindsight 2014 you had Springer with a 126 OPS+, and Alltuve finally breaks through with a 135 OPS+. Keuchel with a 132 ERA+, and McHugh had a 141 ERA+ so you could go with core but McHugh has been largely injured and not performed well so I wouldn't say that if I was an Astros fan in 2013 I might not have predicted greatness without relying on several of the farm guys to develop and develop into stars.

Their farm in 2013 looked a lot like ours now
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2013/
Slight edge to them 7 top 100s vs 6 for the M's currently.

[Captain 97]

Mitch Hanniger is 28 right now. You aren't going to see much improvement out of him He is a solid player and can make an all star team if he has a good year but he is not an MVP candidate and probably never will be. I don't see much point in comparing him to a 21-23 year old Altuve in 2011-2013. Altuve put up 25.8 bWAR from age 25-28 Hanniger has put up 10.7 over the same age span.

Hanniger is best suited to be a 2 hitter hitter.

Vogelbach hits for power but his Average leaves alot to be desired and it drags down his OPS. A contender needs someone with more than an .881 OPS in the middle of the lineup. I see him as a 5 hole hitter on a playoff type team.

Santana and Navarez are good hitters as well. They both leave a lot to be desired defensively but they are net positive players. Neither one however is a a middle of the order cornerstone that I would call a core.

Obviously the offense is scoring enough runs now that we could be a borderline playoff team if we had top tier pitching. I just think we need that one Stud in the middle of the lineup that strikes fear into pitchers to really be the heart of a core. Hopefully Kelenic will be that guy.

The Pitching is much more of the concern to me right now. We literally have no one at the big league level that I would want to see starting a playoff game. Marco and Kicuchi are #4 type starters and they will both be pushing 30 by the time this team is hoping to compete.

I just don't see how you can say we have a solid core when there is zero pitching on the team. I was really hoping that Sheffield would see the majors at some point this year and start to develop into an ace but he has gone the opposite direction. At this point we are hoping that prospects pan out. Seems like we have been hoping about that for decades with this team and for the most part they don't.

[Bil522]

Mitch Hanniger is 28 right now. You aren't going to see much improvement out of him He is a solid player and can make an all star team if he has a good year but he is not an MVP candidate and probably never will be. I don't see much point in comparing him to a 21-23 year old Altuve in 2011-2013. Altuve put up 25.8 bWAR from age 25-28 Hanniger has put up 10.7 over the same age span.

Hanniger is best suited to be a 2 hitter hitter.

Vogelbach hits for power but his Average leaves alot to be desired and it drags down his OPS. A contender needs someone with more than an .881 OPS in the middle of the lineup. I see him as a 5 hole hitter on a playoff type team.

Santana and Navarez are good hitters as well. They both leave a lot to be desired defensively but they are net positive players. Neither one however is a a middle of the order cornerstone that I would call a core.

Obviously the offense is scoring enough runs now that we could be a borderline playoff team if we had top tier pitching. I just think we need that one Stud in the middle of the lineup that strikes fear into pitchers to really be the heart of a core. Hopefully Kelenic will be that guy.

The Pitching is much more of the concern to me right now. We literally have no one at the big league level that I would want to see starting a playoff game. Marco and Kicuchi are #4 type starters and they will both be pushing 30 by the time this team is hoping to compete.

I just don't see how you can say we have a solid core when there is zero pitching on the team. I was really hoping that Sheffield would see the majors at some point this year and start to develop into an ace but he has gone the opposite direction. At this point we are hoping that prospects pan out. Seems like we have been hoping about that for decades with this team and for the most part they don't.

Which is why we overpay to go get Gerrit Cole. He backs up the farm system and takes pressure the farm system to produce a #1

[Hanjag]

Mitch Hanniger is 28 right now. You aren't going to see much improvement out of him He is a solid player and can make an all star team if he has a good year but he is not an MVP candidate and probably never will be. I don't see much point in comparing him to a 21-23 year old Altuve in 2011-2013. Altuve put up 25.8 bWAR from age 25-28 Hanniger has put up 10.7 over the same age span.

Hanniger is best suited to be a 2 hitter hitter.

Vogelbach hits for power but his Average leaves alot to be desired and it drags down his OPS. A contender needs someone with more than an .881 OPS in the middle of the lineup. I see him as a 5 hole hitter on a playoff type team.

Santana and Navarez are good hitters as well. They both leave a lot to be desired defensively but they are net positive players. Neither one however is a a middle of the order cornerstone that I would call a core.

Obviously the offense is scoring enough runs now that we could be a borderline playoff team if we had top tier pitching. I just think we need that one Stud in the middle of the lineup that strikes fear into pitchers to really be the heart of a core. Hopefully Kelenic will be that guy.

The Pitching is much more of the concern to me right now. We literally have no one at the big league level that I would want to see starting a playoff game. Marco and Kicuchi are #4 type starters and they will both be pushing 30 by the time this team is hoping to compete.

I just don't see how you can say we have a solid core when there is zero pitching on the team. I was really hoping that Sheffield would see the majors at some point this year and start to develop into an ace but he has gone the opposite direction. At this point we are hoping that prospects pan out. Seems like we have been hoping about that for decades with this team and for the most part they don't.

Which is why we overpay to go get Gerrit Cole. He backs up the farm system and takes pressure the farm system to produce a #1

Are you really Aaron?
https://sodomojo.com/2019/07/09/mariner ... rrit-cole/

[D-train]

I have met Bil and I can see the picture of the writer so the answer is no.

[Donn Beach]

That core may be solid but I agree we need more than solid to reach the promised land. Will need the prospects to be better than solid.

yup, there is the mid 86-88 win comfort zone of baseball, chasing a WC, the Mariners have lived there for a generation of fans. I give Dipoto credit for what looks like a plan to get back there, to extend our stay there by sacrificing this season, but getting past that? We can certainly dream of being in the elite but that is a dream