All time M's vs the other expansion teams

[Petert]

With out researching it the only thing that stick out is Beltran was a Royal-Astro before he was a Met. I had second thoughts about this while doing the Blue Jays and even Mariner-Yankees. The Blue Jays traded for several all-star HOF level players some short term some integral long term players. Toronto's best 3B was Josh Donaldson and he was a team member for several years. Robbie Alomar was one of the best 2B ever, again traded for. Clemons, Cone, Rickey Henderson are other examples of premium talent that was acquired. Problem came up when Yankees vs. Mariners several of the best all-time were being shared Randy Johnson was both an M and Yankee, same with Robbie Cano, Alex Rodriguez, James Paxton, Ichiro,Tartabull, Ibanez, and Jeff Nelson. I am not sure but there are probably a few others like Rickey Henderson that were both Yankees and M's.

I could actually agree for guys like Beltre or Cano Arod being included as long as you used peak seasons with 2nd-3rd or whatever club. M's had Henderson at age 41 and he was decent but M's claiming they had Henderson and a 9.9 WAR 189 OPS+ peak player is wrong and going head to head with multiple same players is kinda silly.

My .02$

You are right about Beltran, thanks. I’ll replace him with Joel Youngblood, and also replace Kevin McReynolds with Lee Mazzili, for the same reason.

[Hanjag]

Houston Colt 45s
I feel like I know this team almost as well as M's, Cubs, Braves, Yanks, A's
Starters
1. Roy Oswalt 170 ERA+ 7 WAR 7 CY #3-6
2. Larry Dierker 152 ERA+ 8.6 WAR
3. Mike Scott 161 ERA+ 8.4 CY
4. JR Richard 174 ERA+ 5.6 WAR #3 CY vote that 174 was from a 17 start season which scrapes by at least 1/2 a season criteria
5. Dalles Keuchel 157 ERA+ 6.7 WAR CY
36.3 WAR 163 ERA+
BP
Closer Billy Wagner Peak 293 ERA+ 3.8 WAR
SU Dave Smith ERA+ 239 2.9 WAR
SU Joe Sambito ERA+ 199 3.3 WAR
Position players
C Craig Biggio Peak 142 OPS+ 9.4 WAR HOF mainly 2B but he played over 400 games at catcher
1B Jeff Bagwell Peak 213 OPS+ 8.2 WAR HOF
2B Jose Altuve peak 160 OPS+ 8.1 WAR MVP
SS Carlos Correa 155 OPS+ 6.1 WAR MVP # 17
3B Alex Bregman 154 OPS+ 6.9 WAR MVP 5th voting
CF Cesar Cedeno 162 OPS+ 8 WAR MVP 6th voting
OF Lance Berkman 164 OPS+ 6.9 MVP #3 twice
OF Jim Wynne Peak OPS+ 166 7.7 WAR MVP #5 vote
DH
Bench Joe Morgan has over 100 WAR HOF but had all star year with Houston and MVP years with REds. That is a hell of a 1,2,3 at 2B Morgan-Biggio-Altuve even Bill Doran had a 33 WAR career from 2B ( Morgan with Houston peak 132 OPS+ 5.7 WAR Reds 186 OPS+ 11 WAR)George Springer #s support a few others but he is part of a WS core so he gets the 4th OF spot Peak 141 OPS+ 5.1 WAR C Jason Castro 130 OPS+ 4.1 WAR Utility Marwin Gonzalez 146 OPS+ 4.1

[Hanjag]

Blue Jays
SP
1. Roy Holladay peak (19 starts I put the imaginary limit as 1/2 season to qualify)185ERA+ 8.8 WAR 2X CY
2.Dave Steib peak 171 ERA+ 7.0 WAR #4,5 CY voting
3. Jimmy Key peak 164 ERA+ 7.4 WAR #2 twice CY voting
4. Pat Hentgan peak 156 ERA+ 8.6 BWAR CY win and a #6 voting
5. Juan Guzman peak 171 ERA+ 6.7 WAR CY#7 voting
or
5. Marcus Stroman peak 145 ERA+ 5.3 WAR #8 CY vote (160 ERA+ this year)
I think I have the 1st 4 right by my criteria and I know Celmons stopped here Jack Morris was part of the WS runs. Suggestions or is this the best 5

BP
Closer Tom Henke Peak ERA+ 229 3.4 WAR MVP #13 voting
Duane Ward Peak ERA 209 3.1 CY #5 vote
Roberto Osuna peak ERA+ 210 2.1 WAR
Billy Koch Peak 193 ERA+ 2.5 WAR
Casey Jensen peak 191 ERA+ 1.9 WAR
Mike Timlin peak 222 ERA+ 2.9 WAR

Lineup
C Ernie Whitt peak 120 OPS+ 3.4 WAR
1B John Olerud peak 186 OPS+ 7.8 WAR GG MVP#3 voting
2B Aaron Hill peak 133 OPS+ 5.8 WAR
SS Tony Fernandez Peak 125 OPS+ 5.1 WAR MVP8 all-time position player WAR leader for Blue Jays
3B Edwin Encarcion Peak 153 OPS+ 5 WAR
OF Carlos Delgado Peak 181 OPS+ 7.3 MVP #2 voting
OF Jose Bautista Peak 182 OPS+ 8.3 WAR MVP #3
CF Vernon Wells peak 132 OPS+ 6.2 WAR
CF Loyd Moseby peak 134 OPS+ 7.3 WAR

Blue Jays traded for a lot of key established players Roberto Alomar may be the best 2B I have seen but he had 3 years of 3 to 5 WAR years with SD, Josh Donaldson was another traded stud player their best 3B

Does anyone have any must replace opr is this a fair all time Jays roster?

Delgado was a 1B, and tiny bit at Ca, not OF. He's the DH. Jessie Barfield might belong in OF. Best 2B was R Alomar, who had his best years there, but was established with the Padres so might not qualify.

Clemens had his 2 best years for Toronto but it was just 2. Jimmy Key was a spectacular pitcher for Toronto, Think Moyer at least.

You busted me. Delgado was a mistake but he did play 56 games in LF so redemption is mine. He also played Catcher for 5 innings.

[Petert]

Houston Colt 45s
I feel like I know this team almost as well as M's, Cubs, Braves, Yanks, A's
Starters
1. Roy Oswalt 170 ERA+ 7 WAR 7 CY #3-6
2. Larry Dierker 152 ERA+ 8.6 WAR
3. Mike Scott 161 ERA+ 8.4 CY
4. JR Richard 174 ERA+ 5.6 WAR #3 CY vote that 174 was from a 17 start season which scrapes by at least 1/2 a season criteria
5. Dalles Keuchel 157 ERA+ 6.7 WAR CY
36.3 WAR 163 ERA+
BP
Closer Billy Wagner Peak 293 ERA+ 3.8 WAR
SU Dave Smith ERA+ 239 2.9 WAR
SU Joe Sambito ERA+ 199 3.3 WAR
Position players
C Craig Biggio Peak 142 OPS+ 9.4 WAR HOF mainly 2B but he played over 400 games at catcher
1B Jeff Bagwell Peak 213 OPS+ 8.2 WAR HOF
2B Jose Altuve peak 160 OPS+ 8.1 WAR MVP
SS Carlos Correa 155 OPS+ 6.1 WAR MVP # 17
3B Alex Bregman 154 OPS+ 6.9 WAR MVP 5th voting
CF Cesar Cedeno 162 OPS+ 8 WAR MVP 6th voting
OF Lance Berkman 164 OPS+ 6.9 MVP #3 twice
OF Jim Wynne Peak OPS+ 166 7.7 WAR MVP #5 vote
DH
Bench Joe Morgan has over 100 WAR HOF but had all star year with Houston and MVP years with REds. That is a hell of a 1,2,3 at 2B Morgan-Biggio-Altuve even Bill Doran had a 33 WAR career from 2B ( Morgan with Houston peak 132 OPS+ 5.7 WAR Reds 186 OPS+ 11 WAR)George Springer #s support a few others but he is part of a WS core so he gets the 4th OF spot Peak 141 OPS+ 5.1 WAR C Jason Castro 130 OPS+ 4.1 WAR Utility Marwin Gonzalez 146 OPS+ 4.1

Rusty Staub presents an interesting quandary to your selections, having come up and blossomed with the Colt45s, and played 1b, of, and DH in his career.

[Hanjag]

1969 Seattle Pilots ( I wonder if the baseball fandom would be any different had the baseball team came and stayed 8 years earlier) Starting 9 AL style 64.1 /Starters 31.4 WAR/ BP 16.7= 112.2

Poaition players 64.1 WAR total 154 OPS+ average)
C Jonathon Lucroy 132 OPS+ 6.6 WAR
1B Prince Fielder 166 OPS+ 6.3 WAR
2B Paul Molitor 161 OPS+ 6.2 WAR HOF
SS Robin Yount 166 OPS+ 10.5 WAR HOF
3B Tommy Harper 146 OPS+ 7.4 WAR
CF Carlos Gomez 129 OPS+ 7.8 WAR
OF Ryan Braun 166 OPS+ 7.7 WAR MVP
OF Greg Vaughn 156 OPS+ 6.7 WAR
DH Gorman Thomas 146 OPS+ 4.9 WAR

SP(31.4 WAR 144 ERA+)
1. Teddy Higuera 162 ERA+ 9.4 WAR CY#2 voting
2. Ben Sheets 162 ERA+ 7.2 WAR CY#8 voting
3. Chris Bosio 131 ERA+ 5.4 WAR
4. Cal Eldred 147 ERA+ 4.4 WAR
5. Lary Sorensen 118 ERA+ 5 WAR
alt Jamie Navaro 124 OPS+ but 4.6 WAR, Note M's top 5 kill these guys 6 CY to nothing.

BP ( 16.7 WAR, 213 ERA+)
John Axford 202 ERA+ 2.3 WAR
Dan Plesac 176 ERA+ 3.2 WAR
Mike Fetters 209 ERA+ 2.2 WAR
Corey Knebel 248 ERA+ 3.7 WAR
Doug Jones 232 ERA+ 3.2 WAR
Josh Hader 213 ERA+ 2.1 WAR

[Hanjag]

Milwaukee really does not impress me Yount is a 10.5 WAT peak HOF'er but Paul Moliter peaked at 6.2 WAR which is good just not great he did put up 75 WAR and played 2B, 3B, OF making him both good and flexible just not as big as an impact as Yount. The Pilots best pitcher is Tedy Higuera is a headliner and Ben Sheets is a good supporting staff member but then Bosio and the rest have good 5 WAR averages but just not competing with the other clubs that are made up of CY seasons and top 5 type voting seasons.