GT 8.19.26 M's #1 Prospect Suddenly Retires; can't show his face as Mariner

[Michael K.]

Yep, and it was discussed all off season. Naylor most likely wouldn't replicate what he did last year, and DH was a huge problem. I think even though we knew Donovan was a risk? Most thought that he would be a boost at the top of the order, if not be able to replace Geno's pop in the middle. Yes, I know Geno struggled, but he was on both playoff teams Jerry has had. Might not be a coincidence. I think he had value. Guys wanted us to keep Santana all those years back for what he did in the Clubhouse, but Mariner fans were sure in a hurry to get rid of Seager and Suarez. Must be something about playing 3rd Base here.

And now? Every conversation about next year revolves around money saved, and one of those cost savings is not bringing back Randy....our most productive offensive player. I don't understand the logic. I keep reading the "what if" shit about Cal. Well, what if this years team didn't have Randy?

[bpj]

I want to hear from Kyle Seager about Jerry Dipoto.

[D-train]

I want to hear from Kyle Seager about Jerry Dipoto.

I hate that Kyle is a better man than me cuz I would spill the f****** beans on that piece of s*** with the quickness

[D-train]

I talked with Kyle and his two little kids spring training about 8 years ago just to stand up so I'll do just wanted to win. Jay can attest to that he talked to Kyle's Dad they both had three boys.

[DanielVogelbach]

You forgot about Polanco? It was pointed out all off season that his production was going to be very hard to replace. Didn't fit your narrative of the great Dipshitto though, so you ignored that?

No I just forgot about him.

Y'all are funny with your Dipoto bashing. I think you're living in fantasy land if you think the reason the Mariners aren't piling up World Series trophies is because of Jerry Dipoto lol. The Cubs went 107 years without winning one. The Mariners won 90 games 3 times in the last 5 seasons. They won two post season series.

Even the big money teams fail all the time. I'm just trying to drop a little realism into the equation.

If you don't want to do a complete rebuild, but you want a new GM, aren't you basically saying the team is good? Who built the team?

[bpj]

They aren't piling up World Series trophies because Dipoto always stops one or two moves short of actually being good.

We all recognize it pre-season, but then we get our hope goggles on.

That's not working anymore because the deficiencies in the rosters he puts together year after year couldn't be more obvious.

I'm 50/50 whether his angle is collecting a percentage of unspent available payroll which would be why he only does the minimum where they could win if everything goes right, orrrr if he's still on Artie Moreno's payroll to keep the Mariners in perpetual mediocrity. Or both.

Option 2 would be more believable if the Angels weren't stuck in perpetual mediocrity themselves, I know.

[Michael K.]

Thank God for the Angels, As and Royals. I'm sure Dipshitto thanks God for them every day.

[DanielVogelbach]

They aren't piling up World Series trophies because Dipoto always stops one or two moves short of actually being good.

He could make three or four more moves and they still don't pile up trophies. That's the point I'm trying to make. It's not as easy as you make it sound with your vague references to "one or two more moves" as if some obvious play was sitting right in front of Jerry's face and he missed it. Sometimes you want to sign a free agent but you get outbid. Sometimes you offer to make trades and the other team doesn't accept. There are 29 other teams out there also trying to improve their clubs and win ballgames. Some of them are spending $400 million on payroll lol.

What was your opinion of Jack Z? It could so easily be rinse and repeat with the next guy if and when they move on from Jerry. You do realize how stereotypical it is to complain about the GM, right? Every fan base does it, because the entire concept of fandom is a losing proposition. The cubs went 107 years without winning a World Series. The Boston Red Sox went 85 years. In general your team doesn't win the World Series. In general they fall short, especially in baseball where there's no salary cap and the only way for small and mid market teams to compete is through developing young players. When those players don't pan out, you don't win.

These magical "one or two moves" you speak of are a bit of a fantasy in my opinion. The only thing you can really question is whether he should've mortgaged the future to "win now" but even that assumes there was a trade on the table that he passed up on. It's also a massive assumption to say that there were one or two obvious moves that would've guaranteed a championship. We've all watched the postseason and know how difficult, tight, and drama filled those games are. Small upgrades aren't going to make your post season matches any less ballsy. Maybe you increase your chance of winning from 52% to 55% or something. You're making it sound like he had a lay-up opportunity to make them a guaranteed champion and botched it.

[bpj]

At the time he was fired I was pretty ready for Z to be fired because there seemed to be drama surrounding him.

It took me until after Dipoto's first season, when he was getting credit for the 2016 season, to realize he did it on Jack Z's back.

The guys Zdrunciek put together before he was canned had bounceback seasons. The players Dipoto blew his money on didn't put the team over the top like they should have for the $30M+ they cost, and they finished with 86 wins despite Dipoto's terrible moves (especially considering the cost).

His best move was probably Leonys Martin who cost just $4.15M and put up 2.7 fWAR based on his defense. He had a .684 OPS.

Dipoto traded Trumbo for Clevenger, exhibit A.

Blew his available cash on Adam Lind, DaeHo Lee, Joaquin Benoit, Steve Cishek, Wade Miley, Nori Aoki, Chris Ianetta... that was $36.75M on those guys just for their 2016 contracts. Exhibit B.

Then the guys from Z's farm that Dipoto traded off. Chris Taylor, Ketel Marte, Freddy Peralta, Pablo Lopez, Ryan Yarbrough.. a couple others I can't think of. Exhibit C.

I think with Trumbo in hand, and not making the stupid moves Dipoto came in and made, they'd have won 90+ instead of 86, at least, and had the best part of three All Stars careers in Marte, Peralta, and Lopez still to come from Z's minor league system.

[DanielVogelbach]

At the time he was fired I was pretty ready for Z to be fired because there seemed to be drama surrounding him.

It took me until after Dipoto's first season, when he was getting credit for the 2016 season, to realize he did it on Jack Z's back.

The guys Zdrunciek put together before he was canned had bounceback seasons. The players Dipoto blew his money on didn't put the team over the top like they should have for the $30M+ they cost, and they finished with 86 wins despite Dipoto's terrible moves (especially considering the cost).

His best move was probably Leonys Martin who cost just $4.15M and put up 2.7 fWAR based on his defense. He had a .684 OPS.

Dipoto traded Trumbo for Clevenger, exhibit A.

Blew his available cash on Adam Lind, DaeHo Lee, Joaquin Benoit, Steve Cishek, Wade Miley, Nori Aoki, Chris Ianetta... that was $36.75M on those guys just for their 2016 contracts. Exhibit B.

Then the guys from Z's farm that Dipoto traded off. Chris Taylor, Ketel Marte, Freddy Peralta, Pablo Lopez, Ryan Yarbrough.. a couple others I can't think of. Exhibit C.

I think with Trumbo in hand, and not making the stupid moves Dipoto came in and made, they'd have won 90+ instead of 86, at least, and had the best part of three All Stars careers in Marte, Peralta, and Lopez still to come from Z's minor league system.

The Mariners fired Zduriencik on August 28, 2015. During his tenure in Seattle, the Mariners posted a 505–595 record, the fifth-worst record in baseball.

And he left Jerry with the 28th ranked farm system in baseball and a terrible Robbie Cano contract

Jack Z was certainly no better than Jerry.

You're focusing only on your perceived notion that Jerry "blew his available cash" on mediocre players as if no other GM does that. It's commonplace. That's how baseball works. There are scrubs on every team.