2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

IStillLoveTheMs
Posts: 5244
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 11:29 pm

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by IStillLoveTheMs » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:41 am

D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:43 pm
IStillLoveTheMs wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:42 pm
D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:07 pm
1. He is two years older

2. He would sign after Bauer and maybe a closer, know that this team finished 20-15 (93 win pace) with no bullpen and realize he could be a hero on team that breaks a 20 year drought and has a passionate fan base that plays in a great stadium with a roof and no humidity.

3. I would be willing to go up to 13 million a year. :)
I don't disagree that if they drop money on Bauer and sign a closer (Hendricks being my preference) that they should also go out and acquire big talent elsewhere.

Here's the issue: the M's have about a billion prospects that they've acquired and drafted who are waiting in the wings. When it comes time to compete, they need offload some of that talent to: 1. acquire franchise changing superstars for the competing window 2. simply offload prospects so you're not wasting potential trade capital because they're mega blocked.

The Padres and Astros are a prime example... they traded a good bulk of their prospects for talent because they simply had no other option and it just made sense to start moving people.

Pick the core 5-6 prospects that are going to lead your ball club to contention and get rid of the rest.

Signing expensive veterans at this juncture only adds to that dilemma in my opinion.
Sure, I see your point. Just not sure if our second tier prospects will get us Lindor. If so then sign me up.
Price has gotta be cheapening by the day...

Sincerely doubt the deal is any different than the one with Mookie and Mookie is the better player.

User avatar
D-train
Posts: 79525
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:33 am
Location: Quincy, MA

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by D-train » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:30 pm

Hopefully one day we all will be able to do this:

https://twitter.com/NavyYardNats/status ... 6493240321
dt

User avatar
D-train
Posts: 79525
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:33 am
Location: Quincy, MA

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by D-train » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:50 pm

By Ryan Divish
Seattle Times staff reporter
Let it begin …

It took all of two days this offseason for Mariners general manager Jerry Dipoto to sign a free agent for 2021.

To be fair, Kendall Graveman was a “free agent” for about 24 hours after the Mariners declined his $3.5 million club option for 2021. The sides were well into the process of finalizing to a one-year, $1.5 million contract for 2021 that included multiple incentives based on Graveman’s role as a reliever, which could to push the total salary over $3.5 million.

And though eligible players become free agents at 9 a.m. the day after the World Series ends, they can negotiate but cannot sign with a new team for five days. The Mariners took advantage of that window to keep Graveman, their most talented reliever in a bullpen that needs talent and experience.

On Monday, the chaos that is the “hot stove” will be lit with teams eligible to sign any free agent. As he’s done in the past, Dipoto made it clear about his intentions this offseason, particularly the obvious needs.

“We’ll go into this offseason, and I’ve shared it publicly, with the idea that we have every intention of augmenting our club, most likely in the free-agent market and most likely with the bullpen as our primary focus,” he said via video in his season-ending news conference. “I’d like to add three or four guys down there that can stabilize that group and give us some certainty as we move toward the end of the game.”

Per FanGraphs, the Mariners’ 2020 bullpen combined for -1.5 WAR (Wins Above Replacement), which was the worst in the American League with only the Red Sox (-0.6) producing a negative WAR. It also had the highest ERA (5.92) and ranked at or near the bottom of several other categories.

Unlike the previous two years when Dipoto tried to find hidden gems, such as Austin Adams, who had been designated for assignment or on waivers, he plans to invest in the bullpen. His past two major financial investments in relievers included signing Juan Nicasio to a two-year, $17 million contract before the 2018 season and trading for Alex Colome, who was owed $3.8 million when they acquired him in a trade from the Rays.

But given the shortened 2020 season without fans and the reduced revenues, the team is expected to be more frugal.

There is also the fickle nature of relievers, and notable recent failures across MLB such as Craig Kimbrel, Bryan Shaw, Jake McGee and David Robertson. It seems unlikely that teams will overspend on relievers.

Could the Mariners, who had already reduced their salary commitments significantly before the COVID-season, take advantage of a depressed market?

The Mariners’ projected payroll commitments to the 40-man roster is just over $70 million. In 2018, they had $170 million in payroll commitments.

“There will be guys that have enough experience that we feel like they can help us moving forward, and I don’t know that they’re going to be marquee names; that’s really not generally how bullpens work,” Dipoto said.

When looking at relievers, it’s instructive look at the past three seasons of data instead of the most recent season.

Here’s a look at who the Mariners have and who they might sign:

Relievers the 40-man roster

Brandon Brennan, RHP
Aaron Fletcher, LHP
Joey Gerber, RHP
Kendall Graveman, RHP
Ian Hamilton, RHP
Walker Lockett, RHP
Anthony Misiewicz, LHP
Andres Munoz, RHP
Yohan Ramirez, RHP
Casey Sadler, RHP
Erik Swanson, RHP
Domingo Tapia, RHP
Of note: Sadler and Lockett are out of minor-league options, which makes them candidates to be designated for assignment because they have to be on the active roster. Of the other 10 relievers, only Graveman is out of minor-league options. That gives Seattle roster flexibility.


Non-roster relief prospects in the organization

Sam Delaplane, RHP
Juan Then, RHP
Wyatt Mills, RHP
Dayeison Arias, RHP
Devin Sweet, RHP
Brendan McGuigan, RHP
Of note: Delaplane, Then and Mills will likely be added to the 40-man roster to protect them from the Rule 5 draft. Delaplane has a power slider that can generate swings and misses. Then has been working as a starter and turns 21 on Feb. 7, but he has a fastball that touches 99 mph and a power slider. Mills, a former Gonzaga standout, throws from a sidearm slot. His fastball is now touching 97.

Free-agent candidates

Liam Hendriks, RHP

Age in 2021: 32

2018-20 stats: 5.1 WAR, 114 appearances, 123 2/3 innings, 7-5 record, 2.11 ERA, 39 saves, eight holds, eight blown saves, 174 strikeouts, 29 walks, nine home runs allowed.

Of note: Hendriks took over as the A’s closer for the past two seasons is considered to the top free-agent reliever available. Would a team give him a four-year, $48 million contract? For Seattle, that might be too much for the return.

ADVERTISING
Skip Ad

Skip Ad

Skip Ad

Blake Treinen, RHP

Age in 2021: 33

2018-20 stats: 3.8 WAR, 152 appearances, 164 2/3 innings, 18-10 record, 55 saves, 12 holds, 11 blown saves, 181 strikeouts, 66 walks, 12 homers allowed.

Of note: Treinen’s dominance with the A’s in 2018 (9-2 record, 0.78 ERA, 38 saves), his struggles in 2019 (lost closing job to Hendriks, 4.91 ERA) are indicative of relievers. But his 99-mph sinker, riding four-seam fastball and slider make him attractive.

Brad Hand, LHP

Age in 2021: 31

2018-20 stats: 3.8 WAR, 152 appearances, 151 1/3 innings, 10-10 record, 2.85 ERA, 82 saves, 11 holds, 12 blown saves, 219 strikeouts, 50 walks, 14 homers allowed.

Of note: The Indians did not exercise the $10 million club option for their All-Star closer in 2021. He relies on a nasty slider that generated swings and misses 40 percent of the time the past two seasons. A two-year deal for $19 million to $22 million seems likely.


Alex Colome, RHP

Age in 2021: 30

2018-20 stats: 2.2 WAR, 153 appearances, 151 1/3 innings, 13-10 record, 2.62 ERA, 54 saves, 30 holds, nine blown saves, 143 strikeouts, 52 walks, 14 homers allowed.

Of note: Mariners fans will remember his solid work as a set-up man for Edwin Diaz in 2018. He was traded to the White Sox before 2019, tallying 42 saves as their closer. His 23 percent strikeout percentage is low for a high-leverage reliever.

Sponsored
Skip Ad

Skip Ad

Skip Ad

Skip Ad

Shane Greene, RHP

Age in 2021: 32

2018-20 stats: 1.2 WAR, 159 games, 153 2/3 innings, 5-9 record, 55 saves, 19 holds, 11 blown saves, 150 strikeouts, 45 walks, 22 homers allowed.

Of note: Greene was the Tigers’ closer until being dealt to the Braves at the 2019 trade deadline. He’s expected to look for a situation where he will get the best opportunity to serve as closer. He’s also a low strikeout pitcher (23.4 percent).

Trevor Rosenthal, RHP

Age in 2021: 30

2018-20 stats: 0.5 WAR, 45 appearances, 39 innings, 11 saves, three holds, one blown save, 55 strikeouts, 34 walks, two homers allowed.

Of note: He was a promising reliever with the Cardinals, then blew out his elbow and missed 2018. He struggled in 2019 with the National and Tigers, walking 26 and hitting four others in 15 1/3 innings. After a solid start this year with the Royals, he was traded to the Padres where he was dominant, not allowing a run in his final nine outings. His fastball averaged 97.9 mph.

Kirby Yates, RHP

Age in 2021: 34

2018-20 stats: 5.2 WAR, 131 games, 128 innings, 5-9 record, 2.04 ERA, 55 saves, 17 holds, four blown saves, 199 strikeouts, 34 walks nine home runs allowed.

Of note: Yates amassed the bulk of these numbers in 2018-19. Bone chips in his elbow that forced him to have surgery after just six subpar appearances in 2020. In 2019, he was the best closer in the NL, saving 41 games with a 1.19 ERA.

ADVERTISING
Skip Ad

Brandon Workman, RHP

Age in 2021: 30

2018-20 stats: 1.7 WAR, 137 appearances, 132 2/3 innings, 17-6 record, 2.92 ERA, 25 saves, 23 holds, nine blown saves, 164 strikeouts, 74 walks, 11 homers allowed.

Of note: He was traded to the Phillies at the deadline. He didn’t help them much, posting a 6.92 ERA. While he has closed games, he might be better as a set-up man.

Jeremy Jeffress, RHP

Age in 2021: 31

2018-20 stats: 2.3 WAR, 143 games, 152 innings, 15-6 record, 2.61 ERA, 24 saves, 33 holds, 10 blown saves, 152 strikeouts, 56 walks, 11 homers allowed.

Of note: If it seems like Jeffress has been around forever, it’s because he made his MLB debut at age 22. He’s appeared in 414 games over the past 11 seasons. He isn’t a closer but would be valuable as a set-up man.

Trevor May, RHP

Age in 2021: 31

2018-20 stats: 1.9 WAR, 112 games, 112 innings, 10-3 record, 2.89 ERA, seven saves, 30 holds, 2 blown saves, 153 strikeouts, 38 walks, one homer allowed.

Of note: May isn’t flashy or overpowering, but he’s been an effective set-up man for the Twins. The lack of saves and closing experience will lower his price tag.

Other names to consider: Keone Kela, RHP; Joakim Soria, RHP; Jake McGee, LHP; Aaron Loup, LHP; David Phelps, RHP.
dt

harmony
Posts: 1761
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 4:59 pm
Location: Portland OR

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by harmony » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm

The Toronto Blue Jays and righthander Taijuan Walker reportedly have mutual interest in a reunion:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/bl ... l-reunion/

User avatar
D-train
Posts: 79525
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:33 am
Location: Quincy, MA

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by D-train » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:46 pm

harmony wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm
The Toronto Blue Jays and righthander Taijuan Walker reportedly have mutual interest in a reunion:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/bl ... l-reunion/
Apparently despite the fact that we are going to have a 6 man rotation and Walker is gone and Gravemen is in the pen we are only interested in relievers.
dt

User avatar
Juliooooo
Posts: 11754
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 4:38 am
Location: Pdx

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by Juliooooo » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:55 pm

D-train wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:46 pm
harmony wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm
The Toronto Blue Jays and righthander Taijuan Walker reportedly have mutual interest in a reunion:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/bl ... l-reunion/
Apparently despite the fact that we are going to have a 6 man rotation and Walker is gone and Gravemen is in the pen we are only interested in relievers.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but are you basing that statement solely on the fact that a player that was traded away twice by the Mariners is interested in signing with a different team?
The poster formerly known as Kingfelixk. With a new forum comes a new boardname. Julio is my guy, plus we share a birthday, so that's Culiooooo

Adopt a Mariner-Julio Rodriguez

User avatar
D-train
Posts: 79525
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:33 am
Location: Quincy, MA

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by D-train » Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:04 am

No I'm talking about us being interested only in relievers
dt

User avatar
Bil522
Posts: 2759
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 12:52 am

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by Bil522 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:01 am

D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:59 pm
IStillLoveTheMs wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:00 pm
D-train wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:57 pm
1. Both LeMahiue and Brantley are in the back end of their primes. They'll go to teams who present them the opportunity to win right now. The M's, while they're set up for the future, are not yet enticing to free agents who are at the same stage in their careers as these two. The Yankees on the other hand, have a boat load of money, are in a position to win now, and LeMahiue fills a clear near. Honestly, I would be surprised if Brantley doesn't go to a team like the Cubs, Braves, Padres, Dodgers, White Sox, Twins... I see Brantley as a road block to this year's roster too... they're rolling with Haniger, obviously... if they sign Brantley and move him to DH, what would they do with France?

I think fans get WAY too caught up it the "chance to win" as the end all be all for FAs. That is ALL fans care about (there isn't any money involved for them) so they think players MUST feel the same way. And of course players are going to say it publically to appear like some selfless teammate that only cares about winning. While it may actually matter to some, for most it just comes down to the almighty dollar. Cano is example A, B and C.

And besides, look at the Angels and the Padres this season. Rendon signs with the Angels and they have a .433 record and never sniff the playoffs. Could have signed the White Sox and led them to the WS. If we sign Bauer and Hand why wouldn't Brantley follow. We could easily go deep in the playoffs with that team. Chicken or the egg.

For the third time, this is why Brantley is not a road block.

Yes, that is why Brantley is so perfect. He wouldn't be blocking anyone. Even if Haniger is healthy and productive from day one, Brantley can be moved from LF to DH when JK comes up. I imagine they will want to give Haniger plenty of days off and DH rest as well so it wouldn't be like he would be stuck at DH. France then go to UT until 2022 when he becomes 3B.


2. No. The M's will be in a position to sign a 33-year-old veteran (position player... can't emphasize this enough, pitchers are different) when it's clear that they're in the window to compete. I doubt you could convince any 33 year old that the 2021 M's is their shot to win ball games. That's why I said... if you sign any position player right now it better be some 26-27 year just coming out of their arbitration years who is part of the long-term compete window and you can sell them on that... I'm looking at 2022 for this assuming the M's don't make blockbuster trade because there's some serious studs who fit this description (Lindor, Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Correa, Seager, Story). I propose the Lindor trade because it forces a superstar to us instead of relying on our shoddy chances in free agency is 2021 goes poorly - even though it was a free agent signing, it's similar to what the Padres did with Machado.

3. The M's are in a weird position where the bulk of their position players are young and MLB ready. Shortstop and catcher are the only 2 positions where I wouldn't be perplexed if they went out and sign somebody because JP sucks and I'm not sure our current catchers are part of the longterm plan. In the OF... Kyle Lewis and Jarred Kelenic have to be penned as starters for the next bulk of years... Julio is on the horizon and I'd just prefer the M's roll with Haniger until Julio is ready. + they have Trammel too... signing an OF just isn't in the cards IMO.
The reason you sign LeMahieu now is he can play anywhere on the field so he is not blocking anyone. You need to ease Moore into 2nd?? you split time there. White faltering at 1b? Play him there. Need to give Seager a day off? Play him there. When Seager moves on, you play him there. You just keep his bat in the lineup because his glove plays anywhere. It his leadership, attention to detail, and his ability to grind that needs to be shown to the rookies. We are in dire need of someone who is more interested in a hit and baserunner than swinging for a home run every damn time so you strike out 190 times a year.

User avatar
D-train
Posts: 79525
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:33 am
Location: Quincy, MA

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by D-train » Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:27 pm

Wow, I knew he had a good year but didn't realize he hit .364. He is going to demand some serious cash and probably at least a three year deal. He is almost 33 and our luck he turns back into the 2018 version of himself. Maybe if he reinvents himself as a reliever this off season JD will be interested.
dt

User avatar
D-train
Posts: 79525
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:33 am
Location: Quincy, MA

Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

Post by D-train » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:58 pm

dt

Post Reply