Who's off the board tally

Captain 97
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Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by Captain 97 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:35 am

SeattleSportsRUs wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:37 am
I don't get what's causing the home and road splits at SafeCo.

Do guys not see pitches as well at SafeCo?

Are guys routinely hitting 20-30 warning track shots per year that are doubles, triples or homers at other stadiums? And do they need to move the fences in again?

Is the length of the grass or the moisture in the grass causing that big of an issue?

I mean seriously, the heck was wrong with Kyle Seager at SafeCo?
Here is what I can glean from fangraphs splits.
The M's don't square the ball up as well at home. At Home the M's hit line drives 18.5% of the time while on the road they hit line drives 19.8% of the time. AL average is 20.4%. A difference of 1.3% would equal about 40 fewer line drives by the team over the course of the season.

Even more drastic is the speed that the balls come off the bat. They hit the ball softly 20.4% of the time at home and only 17.9% of the time on the road. That equates to about 78 more weakly hit balls at home than on the road. Conversely they hit 31.9% of their balls hard on the road and only 29.3% hard at home. Which equates to about 80 more hard hit balls on the road than at home. AL averages for soft hit is 16.3% and for hard hit is 32.2 %

Switching it over to the pitching side and seeing how are pitchers fare at home and on the road, The M's opponents at safeco had a Line Drive percentage of 20.6%, a soft hit percentage of 17.1% and a hard hit percentage of 31.9%. On the road the M's opponents had a Line Drive percentage of 20.7%, a soft hit percentage of 14.5 % and a hard hit % of 34%

So hitters both for the M's and for their opponents have fewer line drives, more softly hit balls and fewer hard hit balls at Safeco than they do at other ball parks.

Line drive percentage is purely a function of how squarely you hit the ball and shouldn't be affected by heavy air or thick grass, although I suppose that heavy air could make breaking pitches have more movement. I would say that most likely the drop in line drives is a vision issue with the backdrop. The backdrop has been an issue from day one in the stadium. They have made several attempts to remedy it but I am not sure they have been successful.

The velocity with which they hit the ball is also going to be affected by how squarely they hit the ball. However, since the home road difference in hard and soft hit balls is actually greater than the home road disparity in line drives, That would suggest that even when they square the ball up its not leaving the bat with same velocity as it does on the road. That can only be a result of the heavy air.

Whatever the case the numbers show that it is more than a matter of fences that are too deep.

Pharmabro
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Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by Pharmabro » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am

Juliooooo wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:47 am
Alright so Story or Chapman? Which are you picking for 3B? Are you more convinced that Story is not going to crumble after Coors, or that Chapman's last 2 years were the exception and that he'll return to being a productive hitter?
Here is the thing the A's and Giants home parks play the most like ours according to the metrics used on the link I just posted. My view is Chapmann had an off year.
Chapmann
year OPS+ WAR games played
2017 111 3.2 84
2018 137 7.6 145
2019 127 7.7 156
2020 120 1.1 37
2021 100 3.5 151

If you are talking about Matt's spike in K rate that dates back to the 37 games in 2020 but he still had a 120 OPS+ so I would not spit on a 120 OPS+ hitter. Especially if that hitter is the best defender at the position.

Pharmabro
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Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:32 am

Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by Pharmabro » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:58 am

Pharmabro wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am
Juliooooo wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:47 am
Alright so Story or Chapman? Which are you picking for 3B? Are you more convinced that Story is not going to crumble after Coors, or that Chapman's last 2 years were the exception and that he'll return to being a productive hitter?
Here is the thing the A's and Giants home parks play the most like ours according to the metrics used on the link I just posted. My view is Chapmann had an off year.
Chapmann
year OPS+ WAR games played
2017 111 3.2 84
2018 137 7.6 145
2019 127 7.7 156
2020 120 1.1 37
2021 100 3.5 151

If you are talking about Matt's spike in K rate that dates back to the 37 games in 2020 but he still had a 120 OPS+ so I would not spit on a 120 OPS+ hitter. Especially if that hitter is the best defender at the position.
Both Story 103 OPS+ in 2021 and Chappy are bounce-back candidates. And both had 120 OPS+ in 2020. Chapman's 120 OPS+ career is higher than Story's 112 mark but Sory has the speed game element on the bases. ANd I am betting that a good defender at SS can translate to 2B, or 3B if needed.

The issue with Story is Coors. SF is a good comp to Safeco and in 200 PAs he has a .658 OPS+ there.
He has a road OPS of .752 and I am betting that goes up with a change to a Sea level park so say .800 road OPS.

And you know I bet it is an adjustment going from Coors making everything straight to SF 1st series out and everything is ultra bendy.

I'd be curious to see if the 1st road game out of Coors is harder on their splits vs say the 13th game of a road trip.

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bpj
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Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by bpj » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:03 am

Chapman and Story- considering where they got their SLG- look like we would be signing up for the tail end of a Kyle Seager career imo.
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SeattleSportsRUs
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:06 am

Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by SeattleSportsRUs » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:06 am

Captain 97 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:35 am
SeattleSportsRUs wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:37 am
I don't get what's causing the home and road splits at SafeCo.

Do guys not see pitches as well at SafeCo?

Are guys routinely hitting 20-30 warning track shots per year that are doubles, triples or homers at other stadiums? And do they need to move the fences in again?

Is the length of the grass or the moisture in the grass causing that big of an issue?

I mean seriously, the heck was wrong with Kyle Seager at SafeCo?
Here is what I can glean from fangraphs splits.
The M's don't square the ball up as well at home. At Home the M's hit line drives 18.5% of the time while on the road they hit line drives 19.8% of the time. AL average is 20.4%. A difference of 1.3% would equal about 40 fewer line drives by the team over the course of the season.

Even more drastic is the speed that the balls come off the bat. They hit the ball softly 20.4% of the time at home and only 17.9% of the time on the road. That equates to about 78 more weakly hit balls at home than on the road. Conversely they hit 31.9% of their balls hard on the road and only 29.3% hard at home. Which equates to about 80 more hard hit balls on the road than at home. AL averages for soft hit is 16.3% and for hard hit is 32.2 %

Switching it over to the pitching side and seeing how are pitchers fare at home and on the road, The M's opponents at safeco had a Line Drive percentage of 20.6%, a soft hit percentage of 17.1% and a hard hit percentage of 31.9%. On the road the M's opponents had a Line Drive percentage of 20.7%, a soft hit percentage of 14.5 % and a hard hit % of 34%

So hitters both for the M's and for their opponents have fewer line drives, more softly hit balls and fewer hard hit balls at Safeco than they do at other ball parks.

Line drive percentage is purely a function of how squarely you hit the ball and shouldn't be affected by heavy air or thick grass, although I suppose that heavy air could make breaking pitches have more movement. I would say that most likely the drop in line drives is a vision issue with the backdrop. The backdrop has been an issue from day one in the stadium. They have made several attempts to remedy it but I am not sure they have been successful.

The velocity with which they hit the ball is also going to be affected by how squarely they hit the ball. However, since the home road difference in hard and soft hit balls is actually greater than the home road disparity in line drives, That would suggest that even when they square the ball up its not leaving the bat with same velocity as it does on the road. That can only be a result of the heavy air.

Whatever the case the numbers show that it is more than a matter of fences that are too deep.
Sounds like there's issues seeing the ball then. That's about the only issue I could see when it comes to squaring it up more.

Maybe they gotta do something with the batters eye.

Some stadiums have a dark green or blue versus black. Maybe we should do that.
Last edited by SeattleSportsRUs on Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Captain 97
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 9:23 pm

Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by Captain 97 » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:11 am

Pharmabro wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am
Juliooooo wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:47 am
Alright so Story or Chapman? Which are you picking for 3B? Are you more convinced that Story is not going to crumble after Coors, or that Chapman's last 2 years were the exception and that he'll return to being a productive hitter?
Here is the thing the A's and Giants home parks play the most like ours according to the metrics used on the link I just posted. My view is Chapmann had an off year.
Chapmann
year OPS+ WAR games played
2017 111 3.2 84
2018 137 7.6 145
2019 127 7.7 156
2020 120 1.1 37
2021 100 3.5 151

If you are talking about Matt's spike in K rate that dates back to the 37 games in 2020 but he still had a 120 OPS+ so I would not spit on a 120 OPS+ hitter. Especially if that hitter is the best defender at the position.
I just don't know why you would want to give up trade capital for a guy that you are hoping can rebound to a 120+ OPS when there is a guy available who will cost you nothing but cash who has never had an OPS+ lower than 121 in a full season.

SeattleSportsRUs
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:06 am

Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by SeattleSportsRUs » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:17 am

Captain 97 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:11 am
Pharmabro wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am
Juliooooo wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:47 am
Alright so Story or Chapman? Which are you picking for 3B? Are you more convinced that Story is not going to crumble after Coors, or that Chapman's last 2 years were the exception and that he'll return to being a productive hitter?
Here is the thing the A's and Giants home parks play the most like ours according to the metrics used on the link I just posted. My view is Chapmann had an off year.
Chapmann
year OPS+ WAR games played
2017 111 3.2 84
2018 137 7.6 145
2019 127 7.7 156
2020 120 1.1 37
2021 100 3.5 151

If you are talking about Matt's spike in K rate that dates back to the 37 games in 2020 but he still had a 120 OPS+ so I would not spit on a 120 OPS+ hitter. Especially if that hitter is the best defender at the position.
I just don't know why you would want to give up trade capital for a guy that you are hoping can rebound to a 120+ OPS when there is a guy available who will cost you nothing but cash who has never had an OPS+ lower than 121 in a full season.
Yeah. I don't really get the point of trading top prospects for slightly above average hitters.

If you've got a top farm, you should be offloading prospects for the top guys.

If it's not Jose Ramirez, Bryan Reynolds or Matt Olson I don't really wanna hear it.

GL_Storm
Posts: 3601
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:00 pm

Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by GL_Storm » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:36 am

SeattleSportsRUs wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:17 am
Captain 97 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:11 am
Pharmabro wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am


Here is the thing the A's and Giants home parks play the most like ours according to the metrics used on the link I just posted. My view is Chapmann had an off year.
Chapmann
year OPS+ WAR games played
2017 111 3.2 84
2018 137 7.6 145
2019 127 7.7 156
2020 120 1.1 37
2021 100 3.5 151

If you are talking about Matt's spike in K rate that dates back to the 37 games in 2020 but he still had a 120 OPS+ so I would not spit on a 120 OPS+ hitter. Especially if that hitter is the best defender at the position.
I just don't know why you would want to give up trade capital for a guy that you are hoping can rebound to a 120+ OPS when there is a guy available who will cost you nothing but cash who has never had an OPS+ lower than 121 in a full season.
Yeah. I don't really get the point of trading top prospects for slightly above average hitters.

If you've got a top farm, you should be offloading prospects for the top guys.

If it's not Jose Ramirez, Bryan Reynolds or Matt Olson I don't really wanna hear it.
I agree with this. Even when healthy, this is one of the most strikeout-prone players in the league, which really is a limiting factor on the hit tool. However, I would really enjoy watching him play defense.

Pharmabro
Posts: 6150
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:32 am

Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by Pharmabro » Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:51 am

SeattleSportsRUs wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:17 am
Captain 97 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:11 am
Pharmabro wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:47 am


Here is the thing the A's and Giants home parks play the most like ours according to the metrics used on the link I just posted. My view is Chapmann had an off year.
Chapmann
year OPS+ WAR games played
2017 111 3.2 84
2018 137 7.6 145
2019 127 7.7 156
2020 120 1.1 37
2021 100 3.5 151

If you are talking about Matt's spike in K rate that dates back to the 37 games in 2020 but he still had a 120 OPS+ so I would not spit on a 120 OPS+ hitter. Especially if that hitter is the best defender at the position.
I just don't know why you would want to give up trade capital for a guy that you are hoping can rebound to a 120+ OPS when there is a guy available who will cost you nothing but cash who has never had an OPS+ lower than 121 in a full season.
Yeah. I don't really get the point of trading top prospects for slightly above average hitters.

If you've got a top farm, you should be offloading prospects for the top guys.

If it's not Jose Ramirez, Bryan Reynolds or Matt Olson I don't really wanna hear it.
Because we can all see that even if you have an offer on the table and competitive one players may want to be near the Wife's family, or cyzpdq.

I's love to bring in Bryant for 6/160. I would not go Corey seager territory fo rhim though. And I get recency bias. But ffs Chapman has two top 10 MVP years under his belt and is only 28 years old with an expectation of 9 million in arby money next year.

He is not my number one choice but folks around here are acting like he is Toro-level uncertainty.

Like Kyle Seager he had a bad home split
Home .639 OPS
Road .791 OPS

Just some thoughts. Not that committed to say anything more than he is a fallback option should we miss on other upgrades.

SeattleSportsRUs
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:06 am

Re: Who's off the board tally

Post by SeattleSportsRUs » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:15 am

Pharmabro wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:51 am
SeattleSportsRUs wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:17 am
Captain 97 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:11 am


I just don't know why you would want to give up trade capital for a guy that you are hoping can rebound to a 120+ OPS when there is a guy available who will cost you nothing but cash who has never had an OPS+ lower than 121 in a full season.
Yeah. I don't really get the point of trading top prospects for slightly above average hitters.

If you've got a top farm, you should be offloading prospects for the top guys.

If it's not Jose Ramirez, Bryan Reynolds or Matt Olson I don't really wanna hear it.
Because we can all see that even if you have an offer on the table and competitive one players may want to be near the Wife's family, or cyzpdq.

I's love to bring in Bryant for 6/160. I would not go Corey seager territory fo rhim though. And I get recency bias. But ffs Chapman has two top 10 MVP years under his belt and is only 28 years old with an expectation of 9 million in arby money next year.

He is not my number one choice but folks around here are acting like he is Toro-level uncertainty.

Like Kyle Seager he had a bad home split
Home .639 OPS
Road .791 OPS

Just some thoughts. Not that committed to say anything more than he is a fallback option should we miss on other upgrades.
There should be no missing.

The Rangers didn't miss on Marcus Semien and Corey Seager. The Angels didn't miss on Shohei Ohtani and Anthony Rendon. The Astros didn't miss on trades for Justin Verlander, Garrett Cole and Zack Greinke.

It's time for Jerry to nut up and make some trades/signings for destiny-altering talent. He said he no longer wants the M's to be a team opponents leave saying, "huh, they're better than we thought," but rather, the M's being "a team that opponents fear entering a series."

That ain't happening if Matt Chapman is your 3B. That ain't happening if Abraham Toro is your 3B. Especially when our current lineup is made up of a buncha role players.

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