The slightly too early trade deadline thread

[Seattle or Bust]

Cody Bellinger is probably the guy they should be after

Would be nice.

They haven't traded for an impact bat at a deadline like ever.

[Pharmabro]

I like your posts but they often take some deciphering. I wish you would consider how readable you are before clicking on the submit button.

In this case I'm wondering who is "Ford C #1 21M"? Is that Harry Ford? Is the "C" supposed to mean that the player is a Catcher and the "#1" that he was a first round draft pick? What is the "21M"? Is it really so hard to just write the player's name?

Anyway, if you're suggesting giving up anything of value for Brandon Lowe, I think that's a mistake. Lowe should be highly gettable for the simple reason that he hasn't been very productive for 2 seasons now and he's currently sporting a .207 BA, and the Rays are on the hook for his moderate salary next year, which to them is probably an issue. I suspect this is more of an offseason deal but I guess it could happen at the deadline. Maybe you give up Robert Perez Jr. for him, or something like that. Maybe Juan Pinto. Even if you're down on Harry Ford right now, you don't give him up for a player that might not be playing ball a year from now. That's just stupid.

As for whether Lowe is a good move to make, I would say maybe. But I think there are probably better opportunities out there, especially if you're willing to give up Harry Ford, which I would rather they not do but they aren't consulting me on these matters.

He read this and doubled down lol

Hey bud, this is a sports forum not a peer reviewed journal.

I expect folks in here to be able to figure out that RHSP is right-handed-starting-pitcher.

But, you trying to throw shade at me is a fucking joke.

[Pharmabro]

I am thinking about circling back to Tampa and Lowe.
I thought it made a good pair in the off-season.

In the 12 games he has been back he has a .753 OPS and in 62 games this year he is at a 97 OPS+ and 0.9 WAR
He is not super cheap after this year 5.3M prorated, He jumps to 8.75: Team options 10.5, and 11.5 for ages He is 28 so 29,30, 31.
That back is concerning to say the least. But, realistically he is a guy that could find himself in the MVP race if fully healthy. IN only 2 of his years has he been a healthy player 2020 56/60, 2021 149/162, he was top 10 in MVP both years. (140 and 152 OPS+)
His value on MLB trade calc is 13M

The Rays top 3 prospects are SS, and 2X 2B/3B prospects.

Tampa has
3B Isaac Paredes 137 OPS+ 24 years old
SS Wander Franco 118 OPS+ 4.3 WAR so far

TB Ray's catcher suck and they have no high ranked catchers .
SO the return could be either or both
Ford C M's #1 21M
Or
Murphy 141 OPS + catchers are more valuable then the listed 1.4 M on trade calc. With Murphy I would think the M's are sending maybe 1 or 2 prospects in the top 30 but not premium ones.

With Ford the Rays are sending 1 their top 10 sweetener.

This would be a super risky trade. The values of Lowe could have a huge spam of ranges. It is just something to think about.

I like your posts but they often take some deciphering. I wish you would consider how readable you are before clicking on the submit button.

In this case I'm wondering who is "Ford C #1 21M"? Is that Harry Ford? Is the "C" supposed to mean that the player is a Catcher and the "#1" that he was a first round draft pick? What is the "21M"? Is it really so hard to just write the player's name?

Anyway, if you're suggesting giving up anything of value for Brandon Lowe, I think that's a mistake. Lowe should be highly gettable for the simple reason that he hasn't been very productive for 2 seasons now and he's currently sporting a .207 BA, and the Rays are on the hook for his moderate salary next year, which to them is probably an issue. I suspect this is more of an offseason deal but I guess it could happen at the deadline. Maybe you give up Robert Perez Jr. for him, or something like that. Maybe Juan Pinto. Even if you're down on Harry Ford right now, you don't give him up for a player that might not be playing ball a year from now. That's just stupid.

As for whether Lowe is a good move to make, I would say maybe. But I think there are probably better opportunities out there, especially if you're willing to give up Harry Ford, which I would rather they not do but they aren't consulting me on these matters.

I will respond with if you read the post you see the context. I was talking about our catcher position strength and the Rays need for catcher.
So
Ford C M's #1 21M
So Ford = Harry Ford
and C is often the single letter that represents the position of catcher on lineup cards, prospect rankings, etc.
M's #1, here is a little bit of ambiguity I admit. A person could assume I was referring to Ford's status as a M's 1st Round pick, or his status as the M's MLB.com's #1 ranked prospect. In this case it is the latter and not the former of those two assumptions. But in either case it really doesn't matter, both values reinforce his evaluation as a coveted prospect,
21M On this forum, Baseball trade values has been the "go-to" for offering a flawed, but presumably neutral value of teams trade assets.

When I post on this "closed forum" I am assuming a certain level of M's and baseball level of education .

I am assuming that when I have a list of batters and I say player #1 has 131 OPS+ and then the list of ten does not include "OPS+" you should be able to infer.

I write at this site for "Mariner's baseball fan's". My expectations is that when I am talking trade evaluations you know I am using https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/

I am sorry but, if you didn't pick up on context that we are talking about catchers. That is not me that is 100 % on you!

[Sexymarinersfan]

Harry Ford sucks right now as a catcher. He can't throw anybody out. And I mean ANYBODY!! It's time to move him to another position because his bat is so far ahead of his defense.

[Donn Beach]

Mike piazza wasn't that great at throwing out runners either but he was a great catcher. Yeah, Ford came out of highschool with some rough mechanics, but I don't believe they drafted him just to give up on him. They knew what they were getting into with a highschool catcher prospect. You switch his position and you end up with maybe a good position player. You develop him as a catcher and you have the chance to have a star. I think they plan to be patient about it.

[Sexymarinersfan]

Mike piazza wasn't that great at throwing out runners either but he was a great catcher. Yeah, Ford came out of highschool with some rough mechanics, but I don't believe they drafted him just to give up on him. They knew what they were getting into with a highschool catcher prospect. You switch his position and you end up with maybe a good position player. You develop him as a catcher and you have the chance to have a star. I think they plan to be patient about it.

His bat will be ready long before his defense. And while it's true, he does have time to develop, the M's however don't. You could bring him up and split time like Russ Martin did at 3B and C, except maybe at 2B or 1B. This organization needs offense in the worst way. And if their not going to spend in free agency, then the only other option(s) is to either trade for or develop it. And for the record, I hope he does make it as a catcher, but right now he doesn't pass as a major league signal caller. Maybe he'll get the call early up like Bryce Harper did and become an OF and win an MVP!

[Donn Beach]

From the fangraphs article I posted earlier...

His value is seen at catcher. For whatever reason the mariners decided to embark on developing a highschool catcher, and at this point he is improving. It's what I would think they hoped for. I don't see the reason to bail on it because the team is facing offensive issues currently.

Ford is a very explosive, high-upside catching prospect with a rare collection of tools for a backstop, most notably plus-plus bat speed that gives him impact power potential at that position.

Ford finds a way to put the ball in play, and his strength enables power that would make him a star if he can indeed stay at catcher

Ford was so raw in high school that there was talk of him being drafted as a center fielder. He has tweaked some aspects of his defense and is now catching on one knee (his crouch in high school was comically upright), and his hands and receiving are slowly but steadily improving, but Ford is still a pretty poor ball-blocker and struggles to reach across his body to snare poorly-located pitches. He’s gotten better at trying to pick short-hops in the dirt, which seems like a better way of limiting caroms than moving his body in front of the baseball. He’s still not a lock to stay back there, but he’s improved a fair bit already and is still only 20 years old.

His swing is a little grooved through the down-and-in portion of the zone, static enough to consider Ford a future below-average contact hitter despite how he’s performed so far. At catcher, any kind of offensive impact is a big deal, and Ford’s patience and power give him two ways to do it. His hands are lightning fast and powerful, capable of crushing mistakes. He’s not racing to the big leagues or anything, but he projects as a long-term primary catcher and moves into the Top 100 right next to Angels catching prospect Edgar Quero, who has a similar bat-first profile

[D-train]

Harry Ford sucks right now as a catcher. He can't throw anybody out. And I mean ANYBODY!! It's time to move him to another position because his bat is so far ahead of his defense.

.240 BA and a .383 SLG% in A Ball for our #1 prospect with no position. Yes, thank God for that big bat!!!! LOL

[D-train]

Julio hit .325 with a .992 OPS as a 20 year old in Everett. Harry is at .240/.780 in Everett as a 20 yo. I am sure Harry is a lock to be a great MLB hitter like Julio though.

[Sexymarinersfan]

From the fangraphs article I posted earlier...

His value is seen at catcher. For whatever reason the mariners decided to embark on developing a highschool catcher, and at this point he is improving. It's what I would think they hoped for. I don't see the reason to bail on it because the team is facing offensive issues currently.

Ford is a very explosive, high-upside catching prospect with a rare collection of tools for a backstop, most notably plus-plus bat speed that gives him impact power potential at that position.

Ford finds a way to put the ball in play, and his strength enables power that would make him a star if he can indeed stay at catcher

Ford was so raw in high school that there was talk of him being drafted as a center fielder. He has tweaked some aspects of his defense and is now catching on one knee (his crouch in high school was comically upright), and his hands and receiving are slowly but steadily improving, but Ford is still a pretty poor ball-blocker and struggles to reach across his body to snare poorly-located pitches. He’s gotten better at trying to pick short-hops in the dirt, which seems like a better way of limiting caroms than moving his body in front of the baseball. He’s still not a lock to stay back there, but he’s improved a fair bit already and is still only 20 years old.

His swing is a little grooved through the down-and-in portion of the zone, static enough to consider Ford a future below-average contact hitter despite how he’s performed so far. At catcher, any kind of offensive impact is a big deal, and Ford’s patience and power give him two ways to do it. His hands are lightning fast and powerful, capable of crushing mistakes. He’s not racing to the big leagues or anything, but he projects as a long-term primary catcher and moves into the Top 100 right next to Angels catching prospect Edgar Quero, who has a similar bat-first profile

Here is Keith Law assessment: