Finally! Official Hot Stove League thread!

[Donn Beach]

I thought that was an original idea in terms of Hancock.

[Seattle or Bust]

I thought that was an original idea in terms of Hancock.

If your idea of an original idea is splicing the idea of another poster in half and justifying it... idk what to tell you.

I've been on this board for 2 years now and I'm not sure I've ever seen you propose a single original idea of your own. It's always a reaction to other people.

[D-train]

Sodo loves them some Marco. I had never even heard of Cardozo.

Mariners acquire: Jeff McNeil
Mets acquire: Marco Gonzales, $3M, Kristian Cardozo
Marco is actually pretty underrated on the mound. Think about it this way. Over the five-year stetch from 2018-2022 he only missed 10 starts or so, and put up ERAs of 4.00, 3.99, 3.10, 3.96, and 4.13. Would you pay 2YR/$27.5M for that kind of pitching? He had 3 2.0+ WAR seasons in that time, and if wins go for about $8M, you're still getting a bit of value if Marco gives you around 4 WAR over the next two years.

He's also making 12.5M this season, and then has a $15M club option with no buyout for 2025. He does well, as I mention above, and it's worth keeping him around. If he struggles, then you can get rid of him, the McNeil contract is gone and in Seattle, and you still have one of your minor leaguers at second to take his place.

However, I don't think this can be a straight-up deal. Yes, the Mariners are taking on a lot of money with McNeil (more a lot of risk if he is a .260 hitter), but his floor and ceiling are still higher than Marco's even though they are the same age. I think the Mariners either need to pay a few million per season on Marco, or send over a lower-level prospect. Nothing huge, but one of those guys in the Kuhn/Cardozo/Sanchez level of prospect.

[Seattle or Bust]

Sododopo says we have 7 quality starters.

Hancock and Marco both missed most of the season and Marco put up -0.4 WAR and Hancock pitched 12 innings with a 4.50 ERA.

When it comes to young pitching, the Mariners have an embarrassment of riches. They effectively have seven quality starters, and while the adage you can never have enough pitching rings true, there is a case for Jerry Dipoto to double down in the pitching market with Yoshi Yamamoto.

I don't know about 7...

But I'd say that most teams are pretty lucky if their starting rotation even goes 4 deep.

Most teams have 2x top end starters and then a buncha guys with ERA's and FIP's in the middle 4's if not 5's.

I agree with them that trading a starter to get more offense is a good idea. Especially when the M's have proven that developing and shaping pitching is their strong suit.

[D-train]

How do they come up with this nonsense. McNeil is going to be 33 yo and had a 96 OPS+ and is owed $44M

[D-train]

Sododopo says we have 7 quality starters.

Hancock and Marco both missed most of the season and Marco put up -0.4 WAR and Hancock pitched 12 innings with a 4.50 ERA.

When it comes to young pitching, the Mariners have an embarrassment of riches. They effectively have seven quality starters, and while the adage you can never have enough pitching rings true, there is a case for Jerry Dipoto to double down in the pitching market with Yoshi Yamamoto.

I don't know about 7...

But I'd say that most teams are pretty lucky if their starting rotation even goes 4 deep.

Most teams have 2x top end starters and then a buncha guys with ERA's and FIP's in the middle 4's if not 5's.

I agree with them that trading a starter to get more offense is a good idea. Especially when the M's have proven that developing and shaping pitching is their strong suit.

We basically hit the lottery with 4 homegrown starters in the rotation and flushed it this past season because they were cheap.

If they trade one of them to replace Teo and just replace them with Marco they will just go sideways....

[Seattle or Bust]

Sododopo says we have 7 quality starters.

Hancock and Marco both missed most of the season and Marco put up -0.4 WAR and Hancock pitched 12 innings with a 4.50 ERA.

I don't know about 7...

But I'd say that most teams are pretty lucky if their starting rotation even goes 4 deep.

Most teams have 2x top end starters and then a buncha guys with ERA's and FIP's in the middle 4's if not 5's.

I agree with them that trading a starter to get more offense is a good idea. Especially when the M's have proven that developing and shaping pitching is their strong suit.

We basically hit the lottery with 4 homegrown starters in the rotation and flushed it this past season because they were cheap.

If they trade one of them to replace Teo and just replace them with Marco they will just go sideways....

Idk... Marco had a 4.28 FIP in '23.

If he can get you 150 innings of 4.50 ERA ball then I'm not too worried. He's never going to be a high WAR pitcher given his reliance on defense and low K rate.

If you can trade a Miller or Woo for a significant bat like a Soto and roll w. Marco as the 5th, that seems like a pretty big boost to me.

[Seattle or Bust]

I thought that was an original idea in terms of Hancock.

If your idea of an original idea is splicing the idea of another poster in half and justifying it... idk what to tell you.

I've been on this board for 2 years now and I'm not sure I've ever seen you propose a single original idea of your own. It's always a reaction to other people.

I'll also give credit to Harmony.

He usually does the same thing.

But he's been proposing more original ideas of late which I think adds a lot more flavor and fun to a sports forum... even if I don't agree with the compensation, I like the idea of adding a Kepler or Polanco.

[D-train]

I don't know about 7...

But I'd say that most teams are pretty lucky if their starting rotation even goes 4 deep.

Most teams have 2x top end starters and then a buncha guys with ERA's and FIP's in the middle 4's if not 5's.

I agree with them that trading a starter to get more offense is a good idea. Especially when the M's have proven that developing and shaping pitching is their strong suit.

We basically hit the lottery with 4 homegrown starters in the rotation and flushed it this past season because they were cheap.

If they trade one of them to replace Teo and just replace them with Marco they will just go sideways....

Idk... Marco had a 4.28 FIP in '23.

If he can get you 150 innings of 4.50 ERA ball then I'm not too worried. He's never going to be a high WAR pitcher given his reliance on defense and low K rate.

If you can trade a Miller or Woo for a significant bat like a Soto and roll w. Marco as the 5th, that seems like a pretty big boost to me.

I expect Woo and Miller to put up 3-4 WAR and Marco 0 WAR. Soto to put up 5-6 WAR over Teo's 2 WAR so its a wash.

[Seattle or Bust]

We basically hit the lottery with 4 homegrown starters in the rotation and flushed it this past season because they were cheap.

If they trade one of them to replace Teo and just replace them with Marco they will just go sideways....

Idk... Marco had a 4.28 FIP in '23.

If he can get you 150 innings of 4.50 ERA ball then I'm not too worried. He's never going to be a high WAR pitcher given his reliance on defense and low K rate.

If you can trade a Miller or Woo for a significant bat like a Soto and roll w. Marco as the 5th, that seems like a pretty big boost to me.

I expect Woo and Miller to put up 3-4 WAR and Marco 0 WAR. Soto to put up 5-6 WAR over Teo's 2 WAR so its a wash.

I don't value WAR as highly when assessing a back end starter. To me, you just need a guy who is going to throw a lot of innings and hopefully keep you in more games than not. It's sort of like actually believing that Cabby gave the M's 2 more wins in the season because he played really good defense at 2B but Kyle Schwarber only won his team .5 games despite hitting 47 homers? Nah, no way.

To me the M's are never getting over the hump even with all this WAR generated by pitchers when the offense is so anemic. I want to build a more balanced team that can win in a variety of ways.