A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Captain 97
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by Captain 97 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:36 pm

Pharmabro wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:50 pm
D-train wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:31 am
Michael K. wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:26 am
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Saying "if he had enough carries" when describing Penny is ridiculous. As a rookie he didn't even supplant Mike Davis as rhe backup until half the season was over. He wasn't ready for the NFL.
:lol: I swear to GOD I thought of you saying that when I saw the "IF only he had enough carries".
The thing is fellas he has over a thousand yards so the extremely small sample size is out the window. He did not have a history of injuries in college. He does in the NFL. Aurora does have a point when he points out poster's "pride" in their eagerness to slam Pete or John for their decisions. From my armchair I could totally see DK was wide open from the sky view camera, Russ Sucks! shit is all-over this forum.

The same goes for you bullshitters patting each other on the back. " I don't care if he averaged 5+ YPC" It was against a shitty D." No Sherlock, he averaged 7+ against the shitty D and 5+ vs the league. Small sample size! See we hot him!
He was at 27 carries for 78 yards (2.8 yards per carry) for the season prior to the Texans game.
He has had 12 games out of his 33 career games where he averaged 3 yards a carry or less. Carson has only done that twice in 49 games.

Captain 97
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by Captain 97 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:49 pm

auroraave wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:11 pm
Rashaad Penny led the nation in rushing in 2017. Nick Chubb didn't even crack the top 20.
Penny was a consensus All American - Chubb was not even nominated.
To even suggest Penny was a bad pick when comparing the two side by side is laughable. in 2017, Penny had over 2,200 yards, including nearly 400 against Stanford and ASU. MWC player of the year, both on offense and special teams.

IS anyone aware of any of this? Of course not. Whereas Chubb is indeed a solid running back, no question, and Penny is no hero to me, comparing the two based on their college careers, and factoring in Penny was never injured his entire career, and saying it was a bad pick, simply is not a reasonable position. This is the info Seattle had when they picked him. It was a completely reasonable pick - for a team that had no RB's left.

People can lament his professional injuries, and embrace Chubb's NFL career, but the opposing trajectories were not data anyone had to crunch. The available data favored Penny. The only arguments anyone seems to make, are in hindsight. Unfortunately, no one has that ability on draft day. That's why it's called risk.

The second fallacy, is that Chubb would replicate his Cleveland production in Seattle. That is a completely false assumption. People can cling to that, but it is not a position of strength to argue from. Different coaches, different scheme, different personnel, different field, different weather, different playing surface, different division, different competition. The list of variables goes on and on. To believe Chubb duplicates his Cleveland production, or never having any injuries, despite Seattle RB's long history of injuries, as a basis for Penny being a bad pick is simply not a logical assumption. No rational mind would ever accept that.

Being mad at Penny for getting injured, also does not make it a bad pick. It was a good pick, a logical pick. All the complaints are based on hindsight and false assumptions of duplicate production. Theoretically, Chubb could exceed that production, roughly have the same, or have less. You cannot assume anything about what Chubb's production in Seattle would be. What if he tore an ACL on day one - would the same people be bitching about how they shoulda drafted Penny? Probably.

The arguments against Penny are emotional, not logical. An All American running back who led the nation in rushing, was 5th in the Heisman voting, and had no history of injuries, getting drafted by a team who's entire RB room was decimated by injuries, is not an illogical pick. Yeah, the injuries suck, but that doesn't make it the wrong pick - just bad luck - the same luck every single team faces with every single pick.
Its not hind sight. Nobody projected Penny as a first round pick. most had him late second or early third. And the concensus at the time was that it was a big reach to draft Penny in the first round.

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/dr ... e-seahawks
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/new ... rst-round/
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/26/seatt ... ons-grades
https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/seahaw ... 873362.php
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/5/2/1 ... -allen-wyd
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/29/ ... rs-results
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... ds389eh9hm

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D-train
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by D-train » Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:11 pm

Captain 97 wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:49 pm
auroraave wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:11 pm
Rashaad Penny led the nation in rushing in 2017. Nick Chubb didn't even crack the top 20.
Penny was a consensus All American - Chubb was not even nominated.
To even suggest Penny was a bad pick when comparing the two side by side is laughable. in 2017, Penny had over 2,200 yards, including nearly 400 against Stanford and ASU. MWC player of the year, both on offense and special teams.

IS anyone aware of any of this? Of course not. Whereas Chubb is indeed a solid running back, no question, and Penny is no hero to me, comparing the two based on their college careers, and factoring in Penny was never injured his entire career, and saying it was a bad pick, simply is not a reasonable position. This is the info Seattle had when they picked him. It was a completely reasonable pick - for a team that had no RB's left.

People can lament his professional injuries, and embrace Chubb's NFL career, but the opposing trajectories were not data anyone had to crunch. The available data favored Penny. The only arguments anyone seems to make, are in hindsight. Unfortunately, no one has that ability on draft day. That's why it's called risk.

The second fallacy, is that Chubb would replicate his Cleveland production in Seattle. That is a completely false assumption. People can cling to that, but it is not a position of strength to argue from. Different coaches, different scheme, different personnel, different field, different weather, different playing surface, different division, different competition. The list of variables goes on and on. To believe Chubb duplicates his Cleveland production, or never having any injuries, despite Seattle RB's long history of injuries, as a basis for Penny being a bad pick is simply not a logical assumption. No rational mind would ever accept that.

Being mad at Penny for getting injured, also does not make it a bad pick. It was a good pick, a logical pick. All the complaints are based on hindsight and false assumptions of duplicate production. Theoretically, Chubb could exceed that production, roughly have the same, or have less. You cannot assume anything about what Chubb's production in Seattle would be. What if he tore an ACL on day one - would the same people be bitching about how they shoulda drafted Penny? Probably.

The arguments against Penny are emotional, not logical. An All American running back who led the nation in rushing, was 5th in the Heisman voting, and had no history of injuries, getting drafted by a team who's entire RB room was decimated by injuries, is not an illogical pick. Yeah, the injuries suck, but that doesn't make it the wrong pick - just bad luck - the same luck every single team faces with every single pick.
Its not hind sight. Nobody projected Penny as a first round pick. most had him late second or early third. And the concensus at the time was that it was a big reach to draft Penny in the first round.

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/dr ... e-seahawks
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/new ... rst-round/
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/26/seatt ... ons-grades
https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/seahaw ... 873362.php
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/5/2/1 ... -allen-wyd
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/29/ ... rs-results
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... ds389eh9hm
Maybe those guys were ALL too emotional as well. LOL
dt

Michael K.
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by Michael K. » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:23 pm

Yeah, because it isn't back patting to come in here and spout off after he has a great game against the worst rush defense in football...for what, the third hundred yard game of his career?

These two will both disappear if he and when Penny gets hurt next, or had a bad game. Perry carry average is nice, but again, look at the game log, watch a game. How many drive crippling negative to no gain runs did he have before ripping off a big one?

THAT and the injuries are what has stalled his career. You can't afford to be in third and 13 after 2 run plays. And you can't rely on a guy that can't stay on the field.

57reasons
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by 57reasons » Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:41 pm

SeattleAddict wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:30 pm
Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:10 pm
I have a feeling Aaron Donald will be introducing himself brusquely and brutally to Rashad Penny this Sunday.
Rumor has it Penny tweaked an ankle when he heard the name Aaron Donald mentioned.
on KIRO today they were joking that his new shoulder injury will keep him out 4 weeks, caused by all the back pats given the past two days. :lol:

Pharmabro
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by Pharmabro » Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:07 am

Captain 97 wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:49 pm
auroraave wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:11 pm
Rashaad Penny led the nation in rushing in 2017. Nick Chubb didn't even crack the top 20.
Penny was a consensus All American - Chubb was not even nominated.
To even suggest Penny was a bad pick when comparing the two side by side is laughable. in 2017, Penny had over 2,200 yards, including nearly 400 against Stanford and ASU. MWC player of the year, both on offense and special teams.

IS anyone aware of any of this? Of course not. Whereas Chubb is indeed a solid running back, no question, and Penny is no hero to me, comparing the two based on their college careers, and factoring in Penny was never injured his entire career, and saying it was a bad pick, simply is not a reasonable position. This is the info Seattle had when they picked him. It was a completely reasonable pick - for a team that had no RB's left.

People can lament his professional injuries, and embrace Chubb's NFL career, but the opposing trajectories were not data anyone had to crunch. The available data favored Penny. The only arguments anyone seems to make, are in hindsight. Unfortunately, no one has that ability on draft day. That's why it's called risk.

The second fallacy, is that Chubb would replicate his Cleveland production in Seattle. That is a completely false assumption. People can cling to that, but it is not a position of strength to argue from. Different coaches, different scheme, different personnel, different field, different weather, different playing surface, different division, different competition. The list of variables goes on and on. To believe Chubb duplicates his Cleveland production, or never having any injuries, despite Seattle RB's long history of injuries, as a basis for Penny being a bad pick is simply not a logical assumption. No rational mind would ever accept that.

Being mad at Penny for getting injured, also does not make it a bad pick. It was a good pick, a logical pick. All the complaints are based on hindsight and false assumptions of duplicate production. Theoretically, Chubb could exceed that production, roughly have the same, or have less. You cannot assume anything about what Chubb's production in Seattle would be. What if he tore an ACL on day one - would the same people be bitching about how they shoulda drafted Penny? Probably.

The arguments against Penny are emotional, not logical. An All American running back who led the nation in rushing, was 5th in the Heisman voting, and had no history of injuries, getting drafted by a team who's entire RB room was decimated by injuries, is not an illogical pick. Yeah, the injuries suck, but that doesn't make it the wrong pick - just bad luck - the same luck every single team faces with every single pick.
Its not hind sight. Nobody projected Penny as a first round pick. most had him late second or early third. And the concensus at the time was that it was a big reach to draft Penny in the first round.

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/dr ... e-seahawks
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/new ... rst-round/
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/26/seatt ... ons-grades
https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/seahaw ... 873362.php
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/5/2/1 ... -allen-wyd
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/29/ ... rs-results
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... ds389eh9hm
Yes, and AJ Dillon was supposed to be a later round pick but he was taken much earlier. I remember saying how well he would look in Seattle.

AJ Dillon was given a 6.17 grade by NFL .com Rd. 2 ( he now has 856 yards and a healthy 4.5YPC) I don't think GB regrets "reaching" there
Penny was given a 6.3 by the same source

I know I am not going to convince anyone to flip their stance. But, there you have it. There were some pretty good points made by multiple posters . I appreciate the debate. Well done.

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:36 pm

The dope on Penny going into the draft was that he struggled to pick up offenses. And in his first couple years here it became evident that he had/has motivation issues (unless you think a finger injury was a valid excuse to put on 20 lbs of fat). If he looks like the guy they thought they were drafting over the remaining games of this season i think it would be fair to assume it's because he is playing for his next contract. Once he has it, though, i wouldn't bet on him to do much.

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D-train
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by D-train » Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:48 pm

Sibelius Hindemith wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:36 pm
The dope on Penny going into the draft was that he struggled to pick up offenses. And in his first couple years here it became evident that he had/has motivation issues (unless you think a finger injury was a valid excuse to put on 20 lbs of fat). If he looks like the guy they thought they were drafting over the remaining games of this season i think it would be fair to assume it's because he is playing for his next contract. Once he has it, though, i wouldn't bet on him to do much.

That word again!!! :lol:
dt

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:10 pm

Sorry, i tried to avoid it. :mrgreen:

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Walla Walla Dawg II
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Re: A 'Datt A Boy" for Penny

Post by Walla Walla Dawg II » Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:11 am

auroraave wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:01 pm
I am one of the few who unapologetically liked the pick. The circumstances were perfect for a RB to be taken quickly. Penny has never lacked talent - he's been oft-injured, and when available, he just never got the workload to develop into what he could be. You can't develop by getting 4 touches every other game. He is such a threat every time he gets the ball.

The bigger problem is people wanting him to fail, because they think it validates their criticisms of the front office drafting. No one seems to remember that, when Penny was drafted, Seattle had lost ALL of their RB's the previous season, making RW the leading rusher, thus making RB the position of most need. So they did the obvious thing; they drafted an All-American with their first pick - at the bottom of the first round. people also like to quietly lean into the facade that this was some top of the round pick - to make it look worse - but it wasn't.

No, people on here would rather have Penny fail, so they can stroke their own ego about 'how much more' they know about drafting than an NFL front office. They would rather root for Penny to fail, so they can validate their criticism, rather than root for Penny to succeed, in which case everyone wins. That's how some people's ego works - their ego is more important to them than the success of players and the team, as is evidenced by people already trying to downplay his game yesterday.

NO shame is embracing Penny's success. I hope he has a great career. But of course, that goes against the narrative on here that if Seattle had only picked Nick Chubb, he's be averaging 2000 a season, never get injured, and Seattle would be chasing another SB. :lol:

Some folks still have not come to terms with the fact every pick, every transaction is a RISK. They are the same people that complain when they lose at blackjack in Vegas. Guess what? It's a RISK.
Sorry dude. I respect and agree with a lot of what you say, but totally disagree with this post. Nobody here wants Penny to fail for any reason. We just believe he was a wasted draft pick because he would have been available the next round and the Hawks should have gotten someone rated for the pick.

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