Yes! It is happening. The first Dude in the WNBA?

[douche]

I don't think discrimination will ever go away. We all discriminate to some degree. Which is a good thing, because if I couldn't discriminate, I would be living in a paper shack down by the river with all the other meth heads.

But on this topic, and with everything going on in today's world, it's important to remember that we really don't know where peoples' heads are at. We don't know their childhoods or their experiences. We don't know what has formed their opinions or beliefs. I was reading an article recently about a man who found out later in life that his father was a full member of the Nazi regime. He wore the swastika and subscribed to all things Hitler. Why? Because when he was a child, some Soviet soldiers arrived at the family house, threatened his father, made false charges and hauled him away. They later tortured and killed him. This led to a child growing up seeking revenge. It changed him.

One of the author's quotes regarding his father... "My father grew up with this loss as his foundation, fear as his inheritance, and hatred as his compass."

It's stories like this that remind me that I don't know where some people are coming from and I that may never understand them. I'm thankful to be healthy and not mentally ill. It also reminds me that I am very fortunate to have grown up in a 'normal' family with parents who looked after me and raised me to the best of their ability, which has allowed me a fair shot in this crazy world. Some people never get that, which may explain why there are so many broken people in the world.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Are you saying that it is ok to discriminate against people because they are in one of these groups? I don't know if special protection is the right term, but what I mean is that it should be, for example, [1] illegal to discriminate against a white person in hiring for a job, and [2] illegal to discriminate against a trans person who wants to eat at a restaurant.

Gil, you should know me better than that!! You already know that I am an "even-Stephen" type of guy.... every citizen in this country has the same rights and liberties.

But to answer your [absurd] question; Any discrimination is wrong. Having special laws to protect "special groups" is discriminating against the general population as it gives these 'special people' a boost over the general population.

There are enough laws protecting the general public, which is were we all are... nobody needs special laws to help them.

Apologies if I post essentially the same thing twice. I just wrote up something that disappeared.

WallaWalla, Yes you are, and I value our discussions here. I'm not questioning your values, but I'm trying to get at something that I may not be expressing well. When you say "any discrimination is wrong", it sounds perfect, like something we should all agree to. But the way it is put into practice (by law, I mean) I don't think it's clean cut.

Example: I need to hire several people for my business. In walks a guy with a bow tie. I have had bad associations with bow tie wearers. I don't hire him for that reason, even though he is perfectly qualified. As far as a know this is NOT illegal (even though I admit I am discriminating).

Next, in walks a white guy. I have had bad associations with white people. I don't hire him for that reason, even though he is perfectly qualified. As far as a know this IS illegal, because federal (and at least in Washington) state laws don't allow me to discriminate on the basis or race.

So do you think I should (legally) be prohibited from discriminating on the basis of race? I do. Is this protecting a "special group" or is it protecting the general public? (Just please don't tell me I have to hire bow tie guy. lol)

Sorry Gil, I find those examples pretty poor because neither one can be proven unless you are stupid enough to say.....
I hate bow ties and all that wear them, so take a hike.

If this were to happen, you deserve to be taken to court.

The other is just as obviously unproveable unless you are stupid enough to say something.

Sorry, but all protection laws are absolute crap because they cannot be proven. So they all try to find the jury that will have the most sympathy toward the case.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

I don't think discrimination will ever go away. We all discriminate to some degree. Which is a good thing, because if I couldn't discriminate, I would be living in a paper shack down by the river with all the other meth heads.

But on this topic, and with everything going on in today's world, it's important to remember that we really don't know where peoples' heads are at. We don't know their childhoods or their experiences. We don't know what has formed their opinions or beliefs. I was reading an article recently about a man who found out later in life that his father was a full member of the Nazi regime. He wore the swastika and subscribed to all things Hitler. Why? Because when he was a child, some Soviet soldiers arrived at the family house, threatened his father, made false charges and hauled him away. They later tortured and killed him. This led to a child growing up seeking revenge. It changed him.

One of the author's quotes regarding his father... "My father grew up with this loss as his foundation, fear as his inheritance, and hatred as his compass."

It's stories like this that remind me that I don't know where some people are coming from and I that may never understand them. I'm thankful to be healthy and not mentally ill. It also reminds me that I am very fortunate to have grown up in a 'normal' family with parents who looked after me and raised me to the best of their ability, which has allowed me a fair shot in this crazy world. Some people never get that, which may explain why there are so many broken people in the world.

There is a channel on Youtube that has videos of 1 vs 20. In one of these, there was a former black cop that was debating against a bunch of black liberals. One of his questions to them was, "can a black person be racist?" I was appalled to see that 75% said that blacks ARE NOT racist.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Next, in walks a white guy. I have had bad associations with white people. I don't hire him for that reason, even though he is perfectly qualified. As far as a know this IS illegal, because federal (and at least in Washington) state laws don't allow me to discriminate on the basis or race.

Let's flip this around.....

A black man walks in and applies for the job. He is just as qualified as the 3 white people that applied for the job, if you don't give the black guy a job are you racist?

Personally, I wouldn't give him the job because of the political environment right now. Even though he may be a perfectly fine person that may also not like the whole "white privilege" bullshit, I still wouldn't take the chance at him breaking the great environment that we already have in the office.

This is just my opinion and I don't believe it makes me racist. IF it was the Mexicans causing issues and claiming 'white privilege", I would treat them the same way.

[gil]

Next, in walks a white guy. I have had bad associations with white people. I don't hire him for that reason, even though he is perfectly qualified. As far as a know this IS illegal, because federal (and at least in Washington) state laws don't allow me to discriminate on the basis or race.

Let's flip this around.....

A black man walks in and applies for the job. He is just as qualified as the 3 white people that applied for the job, if you don't give the black guy a job are you racist?

Personally, I wouldn't give him the job because of the political environment right now. Even though he may be a perfectly fine person that may also not like the whole "white privilege" bullshit, I still wouldn't take the chance at him breaking the great environment that we already have in the office.

This is just my opinion and I don't believe it makes me racist. IF it was the Mexicans causing issues and claiming 'white privilege", I would treat them the same way.

I do not think you are racist. But the legal issue would be if there is unlawful discrimination based upon race.

I definitely think that maintaining a positive working environment/culture is a valid consideration on who to hire. But man, when you are thinking you don't want to hire a black person because of what might happen ... I'd be afraid of having to answer this one in front of a judge or jury.

What if you know that the predominant feeling in your company is that they don't want a black person to be hired, period. No politics necessary. As the boss you could say the same thing as before, right? You don't want to risk breaking the great environment. But if you don't hire someone because of his race, it sounds like discrimination based upon the candidate's race. And as I said, I think that is illegal.

[douche]

But the legal issue would be if there is unlawful discrimination based upon race.

I'm sure it happens all the time. But good luck proving it.

I knew a company owner who used to run a courier service. He refused to hire attractive women for the dispatch position(s) because he felt that having attractive women in the office would just be a huge distraction for the rest of his staff (especially the male ones). So his practice was to hire older, frumpier women (provided they met the job criteria). But if a hottie walked in and applied, he sent her on her way.

Again, discrimination. It happens on so many levels.

[D-train]

Are you saying that it is ok to discriminate against people because they are in one of these groups? I don't know if special protection is the right term, but what I mean is that it should be, for example, [1] illegal to discriminate against a white person in hiring for a job, and [2] illegal to discriminate against a trans person who wants to eat at a restaurant.

Gil, you should know me better than that!! You already know that I am an "even-Stephen" type of guy.... every citizen in this country has the same rights and liberties.

But to answer your [absurd] question; Any discrimination is wrong. Having special laws to protect "special groups" is discriminating against the general population as it gives these 'special people' a boost over the general population.

There are enough laws protecting the general public, which is were we all are... nobody needs special laws to help them.

Apologies if I post essentially the same thing twice. I just wrote up something that disappeared.

WallaWalla, Yes you are, and I value our discussions here. I'm not questioning your values, but I'm trying to get at something that I may not be expressing well. When you say "any discrimination is wrong", it sounds perfect, like something we should all agree to. But the way it is put into practice (by law, I mean) I don't think it's clean cut.

Example: I need to hire several people for my business. In walks a guy with a bow tie. I have had bad associations with bow tie wearers. I don't hire him for that reason, even though he is perfectly qualified. As far as a know this is NOT illegal (even though I admit I am discriminating).

Next, in walks a white guy. I have had bad associations with white people. I don't hire him for that reason, even though he is perfectly qualified. As far as a know this IS illegal, because federal (and at least in Washington) state laws don't allow me to discriminate on the basis or race.

So do you think I should (legally) be prohibited from discriminating on the basis of race? I do. Is this protecting a "special group" or is it protecting the general public? (Just please don't tell me I have to hire bow tie guy. lol)

I have never seen or met a bow tie guy that isn't a complete nerd...

[D-train]

Gil, you should know me better than that!! You already know that I am an "even-Stephen" type of guy.... every citizen in this country has the same rights and liberties.

But to answer your [absurd] question; Any discrimination is wrong. Having special laws to protect "special groups" is discriminating against the general population as it gives these 'special people' a boost over the general population.

There are enough laws protecting the general public, which is were we all are... nobody needs special laws to help them.

Apologies if I post essentially the same thing twice. I just wrote up something that disappeared.

WallaWalla, Yes you are, and I value our discussions here. I'm not questioning your values, but I'm trying to get at something that I may not be expressing well. When you say "any discrimination is wrong", it sounds perfect, like something we should all agree to. But the way it is put into practice (by law, I mean) I don't think it's clean cut.

Example: I need to hire several people for my business. In walks a guy with a bow tie. I have had bad associations with bow tie wearers. I don't hire him for that reason, even though he is perfectly qualified. As far as a know this is NOT illegal (even though I admit I am discriminating).

Next, in walks a white guy. I have had bad associations with white people. I don't hire him for that reason, even though he is perfectly qualified. As far as a know this IS illegal, because federal (and at least in Washington) state laws don't allow me to discriminate on the basis or race.

So do you think I should (legally) be prohibited from discriminating on the basis of race? I do. Is this protecting a "special group" or is it protecting the general public? (Just please don't tell me I have to hire bow tie guy. lol)

Sorry Gil, I find those examples pretty poor because neither one can be proven unless you are stupid enough to say.....
I hate bow ties and all that wear them, so take a hike.

If this were to happen, you deserve to be taken to court.

The other is just as obviously unproveable unless you are stupid enough to say something.

Sorry, but all protection laws are absolute crap because they cannot be proven. So they all try to find the jury that will have the most sympathy toward the case.

The baker that refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding did just that. I guess refusing service is far easier to prove other than hiring someone.

[douche]

But doesn't a company (or business owner) have the right to refuse a customer? For any reason? At the very least, they could probably get away with offering a vague reason and/or disguising it.

I know some business owners who, if presented with a customer request they don't want to do, simply overcharge. And that usually solves the problem.

[D-train]

But the legal issue would be if there is unlawful discrimination based upon race.

I'm sure it happens all the time. But good luck proving it.

I knew a company owner who used to run a courier service. He refused to hire attractive women for the dispatch position(s) because he felt that having attractive women in the office would just be a huge distraction for the rest of his staff (especially the male ones). So his practice was to hire older, frumpier women (provided they met the job criteria). But if a hottie walked in and applied, he sent her on her way.

Again, discrimination. It happens on so many levels.

Jesus was he gay and just into frumpy women??? What a dope...