Tariffs?

[GL_Storm]

I'm not an expert on the lumber industry, but I suppose if restrictions were eased on US lumber production, then that would lessen demand for Canadian lumber. I don't think that makes the case for tariffs though. If Canadian lumber is still cheaper, I think Americans should be able to benefit from that.

I'm anti-tariff, in principle. I agree with having a free market where consumers, homebuilders, etc., being able to seek out lower costs without government taxes. (I.e., tariffs are taxes.)

Agreed.

Anyone that puts a tariff on the US should face an equal tariff on their products until the tariff is removed.

Good thing we have someone working on creating that level playing field now.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that the Canadians are somehow ripping off the US. Yes, they're protective of their agriculture sector, but that's a very small part of the overall trade between the countries, which is about $750 billion USD. Canada is our largest export market. Also, while we do run a small trade deficit with Canada, that's entirely because of energy products, which is to our advantage because it enables us to to export our own energy products (light sweet crude) to other markets.

Starting a trade war with Canada is stupid, brain-dead policy. It doesn't make sense and may very well result in economic contraction.

But as I said before, there's a much better case to be made with Mexico.

[bpj]

I'm anti-tariff, in principle. I agree with having a free market where consumers, homebuilders, etc., being able to seek out lower costs without government taxes. (I.e., tariffs are taxes.)

Agreed.

Anyone that puts a tariff on the US should face an equal tariff on their products until the tariff is removed.

Good thing we have someone working on creating that level playing field now.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that the Canadians are somehow ripping off the US. Yes, they're protective of their agriculture sector, but that's a very small part of the overall trade between the countries, which is about $750 billion USD. Canada is our largest export market. Also, while we do run a small trade deficit with Canada, that's entirely because of energy products, which is to our advantage because it enables us to to export our own energy products (light sweet crude) to other markets.

Starting a trade war with Canada is stupid, brain-dead policy. It doesn't make sense and may very well result in economic contraction.

But as I said before, there's a much better case to be made with Mexico.

I haven't followed it too much, but from what I've seen there are two layers.

1) Tariffs to stop the drugs coming in from the border.

2) And then matching tariffs on other products.

What do I have wrong?

If they don't have tariffs on our products, and they seal the border, then there wouldn't be any tariffs on either side would there?

Here are some tariffs Grok says Canada has in place-

[bpj]

Below is Grok's summation of the apparent reasoning behind their tariffs.

If Canada does this to protect their companies, but the US allows them free access to our markets then it hurts our companies.

Ideally, Canada just drops their tariffs, right? Levels the playing field everywhere. But if they don't / since they haven't?

I don't see a reason to give them free access to our markets when they don't do the same.

Especially when we can shop elsewhere, or produce domestically anyways.

[gil]

Below is Grok's summation of the apparent reasoning behind their tariffs.

If Canada does this to protect their companies, but the US allows them free access to our markets then it hurts our companies.

Ideally, Canada just drops their tariffs, right? Levels the playing field everywhere. But if they don't / since they haven't?

I don't see a reason to give them free access to our markets when they don't do the same.

Especially when we can shop elsewhere, or produce domestically anyways.

But tariffs that the U.S. imposes hurt OUR consumers (by making us pay more). It's essentially a tax. Doesn't Grok get that?

[bpj]

Below is Grok's summation of the apparent reasoning behind their tariffs.

If Canada does this to protect their companies, but the US allows them free access to our markets then it hurts our companies.

Ideally, Canada just drops their tariffs, right? Levels the playing field everywhere. But if they don't / since they haven't?

I don't see a reason to give them free access to our markets when they don't do the same.

Especially when we can shop elsewhere, or produce domestically anyways.

But tariffs that the U.S. imposes hurt OUR consumers (by making us pay more). It's essentially a tax. Doesn't Grok get that?

I understand there's a consumer aspect, but equal trade has to be paramount, otherwise it puts US industry at the disadvantage. Trump is definitely looking at it from a business/jobs aspect, not focusing on what consumers are paying in the short term. I do get that.

At the same time, I think we need Canada less that they need us, and in the end they'll cave.

Always seems to just be a negotiation with Trump.

The goal seems to be eliminating tariffs on US products by imposing matching tariffs on their companies until that happens.

[bpj]

Sounds like he's not messing around....

https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/190 ... 4_pBQ&s=19

[XpertDBA]

Below is Grok's summation of the apparent reasoning behind their tariffs.

If Canada does this to protect their companies, but the US allows them free access to our markets then it hurts our companies.

Ideally, Canada just drops their tariffs, right? Levels the playing field everywhere. But if they don't / since they haven't?

I don't see a reason to give them free access to our markets when they don't do the same.

Especially when we can shop elsewhere, or produce domestically anyways.

But tariffs that the U.S. imposes hurt OUR consumers (by making us pay more). It's essentially a tax. Doesn't Grok get that?

What nobody, (and I mean NOBODY) talks about is how Canada just assumes and relies on our defense budget to protect them, without having to worry one iota with their own economy. Why is that? If they're not one of our states, why should we spend a penny protecting them? The least they could do is make sure the trade deficit doesn't exist and maybe even kick in a little more, since they're riding on our taxpayers coattails. They boo our national anthem, yet want our military to defend them? That's rich.

[Mel Bradford]

100%

[gil]

Below is Grok's summation of the apparent reasoning behind their tariffs.

If Canada does this to protect their companies, but the US allows them free access to our markets then it hurts our companies.

Ideally, Canada just drops their tariffs, right? Levels the playing field everywhere. But if they don't / since they haven't?

I don't see a reason to give them free access to our markets when they don't do the same.

Especially when we can shop elsewhere, or produce domestically anyways.

But tariffs that the U.S. imposes hurt OUR consumers (by making us pay more). It's essentially a tax. Doesn't Grok get that?

I understand there's a consumer aspect, but equal trade has to be paramount, otherwise it puts US industry at the disadvantage. Trump is definitely looking at it from a business/jobs aspect, not focusing on what consumers are paying in the short term. I do get that.

At the same time, I think we need Canada less that they need us, and in the end they'll cave.

Always seems to just be a negotiation with Trump.

The goal seems to be eliminating tariffs on US products by imposing matching tariffs on their companies until that happens.

Do you think business profits are more important than lower prices? I don't.

And I want to emphasize that when prices are raised (due to a tariff/tax) it isn't just you or me as the final consumer who pays more. It's also the American businesses who make products and provide services using the imported item.

I've been having discussion with a couple of my more conservative friends who don't seem to really know how tariffs work. Their reaction is that if we (America) has a negative balance of trade, we are losing money. I disagree.

Consider this analogy: I go to the grocery store and buy a variety of things. The grocery store buys nothing for me. Literally, I have a negative balance of trade with the grocery. Is this bad? Should I stop "trading" with my grocer? (That was, should I just grow all my food, make my own breakfast cereal, slaughterhouse my own meat?)

Adam Smith wrote all about this in "The Wealth of Nations", published 249 years ago. Free trade is better than having tariffs. Specialization is better than doing everything yourself. Spend your efforts doing what you are best at, then buy the other things. These principles are the foundation of capitalism.

Propping up industries with tariffs and subsidies is state socialism. It might be justifiable in some very specific circumstances, but in general, it's not a good idea. It helps a few and hurts most of us, and the total harm is greater than the total gain.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Consider this analogy: I go to the grocery store and buy a variety of things. The grocery store buys nothing for me. Literally, I have a negative balance of trade with the grocery. Is this bad? Should I stop "trading" with my grocer? (That was, should I just grow all my food, make my own breakfast cereal, slaughterhouse my own meat?)

That example only works if you are both grocery stores.

If you were to argue from this point of view, then we can say that everyplace you spend money is a valid example.
Car lots.
Gas stations.
Gym's
And anywhere else you spend money....... BECASUE THESE PLACES DON'T GIVE YOU MONEY BACK.

Adam Smith wrote all about this in "The Wealth of Nations", published 249 years ago. Free trade is better than having tariffs. Specialization is better than doing everything yourself. Spend your efforts doing what you are best at, then buy the other things. These principles are the foundation of capitalism.

Sure. Everyone can agree, but what do you do if your trade partner has tariffs?
-So, another bad example.


As for your so-called trade war with Canada.... maybe they should remove their tariffs, so we can remove ours.

If you can't see that these extreme tariffs by other countries are unfair for American's, then you are thinking politically and not economically.

How much of a tariff does the EU (France) put on our wine and spirits?
How much of a tariff does Canada put on wood and dairy products?