Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Donn Beach
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by Donn Beach » Sat May 13, 2023 3:40 pm

Here is their products services page, seems like they are good at collecting data and analysing it in terms of a teams specifications.

Testimonials
“One of the things we asked Mike at the beginning of the year was always look at stacks and bunches. We always feel like stacks and bunches is important to understand how things play out. He is our stacks and bunches guru. We use PFF [Pro Football Focus] to give us a folder of stacks and bunches every week.” – Super Bowl LII Champion Offensive Coordinator, Frank Reich (via Sports Illustrated)
“We attributed all three special teams return TDs in 2017 to PFF data.” – FBS Special Teams Coach
“PFF Data saves me 10 hours per week in season drawing play cards.” – NFL Coach
https://www.pff.com/team-services

Donn Beach
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by Donn Beach » Sat May 13, 2023 3:42 pm

D-train wrote:
Sat May 13, 2023 3:32 pm
Donn Beach wrote:
Sat May 13, 2023 3:14 pm
D-train wrote:
Sat May 13, 2023 2:46 pm
This seems like pretty solid validation of their credibility. Clearly far from perfect but they wouldn't have 100% market penetration in the NFL if it was worthless or even bad data.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Footb ... 20provides,)%20and%20sports%20agencies%2Fagents.
Customized data.... that sounds different from their grading system they supply fans. I'll guess teams ask for certain pieces of information to be broken out what's collected, but I doubt they have much use for the grading system. I'm gonna guess teams have their own in house grading systems
So they have a team of brilliant football experts working on stuff for the NFL teams and room full of Baboons creating the website content?

Not saying any of their analysts are geniuses and football experts but with training and getting paid to do a job and I assume taking pride in it like most humans and watching thousands of plays ever year I don't have any reason to believe they would be worse than any of the football geniuses here.
It's two separate products, neither of them I'd say are brilliant. One is a consumer product I doubt teams have much use for, the other is data collection

That doesn't say brilliance to me
We use PFF [Pro Football Focus] to give us a folder of stacks and bunches every week

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Sibelius Hindemith
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by Sibelius Hindemith » Sun May 14, 2023 3:08 pm

Stacks and bunches? WTF is that?

Donn Beach
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by Donn Beach » Sun May 14, 2023 4:07 pm

He's talking about data isn't he, looking at lots of data.
“One of the things we asked Mike at the beginning of the year was always look at stacks and bunches. We always feel like stacks and bunches is important to understand how things play out

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D-train
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by D-train » Sun May 14, 2023 4:38 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 4:07 pm
He's talking about data isn't he, looking at lots of data.
“One of the things we asked Mike at the beginning of the year was always look at stacks and bunches. We always feel like stacks and bunches is important to understand how things play out
Sounds like it could be football terminology too. WR formations for example. ha
dt

Donn Beach
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by Donn Beach » Sun May 14, 2023 4:55 pm

Think you are correct! One of those deals where your eyes cross from the jargon
Much like the 2×2 stack sets, the Bunch set is used to stress the defense, but in a different way. Anytime an offense aligns in a 3×1 set, it has the opportunity to go vertical and stress the defense. Versus a two-high scheme, the defense can gain a plus-one, but it is stressed versus four verticals. Single-high is able to load the box, but the pass distribution is the same and the defense loses a defender to the single receiver side. Most offenses do not run four verticals out of bunch sets because of the spacing. Instead, many rely on high-low concepts. In order to match up, and stay sound to the boundary, a defense treats the bunch much like it does a stack set. In the diagram below, a “Cold” call is needed to tell the Sam to apex the bunch and hold the curl. The Mike is allowed to stay in the box and hold the run. The CB is responsible for the first outside route, while the Sam is responsible for the first “in” route. The safety holds leverage over the bunch and protects the vertical. To the boundary, the safety and CB stay in quarters coverage allowing the safety to “rob” the curl and attack the run game weak. If spinning, it is best to press the Sam, and have the spinning safety hold the curl. The CB, who is outside the bunch set needs to work over the unit and hold any vertical. If the offense aligns the Bunch set tight to the box, the Sam must align outside the “on the ball” WR and press the outside shoulder. The CB aligns 3×3 off the outside man, holding the edge if there is an outside run play. Teams use the bunch to gain an advantage in the run game, especially is aligned to the box

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D-train
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by D-train » Sun May 14, 2023 5:24 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 4:55 pm
Think you are correct! One of those deals where your eyes cross from the jargon
Much like the 2×2 stack sets, the Bunch set is used to stress the defense, but in a different way. Anytime an offense aligns in a 3×1 set, it has the opportunity to go vertical and stress the defense. Versus a two-high scheme, the defense can gain a plus-one, but it is stressed versus four verticals. Single-high is able to load the box, but the pass distribution is the same and the defense loses a defender to the single receiver side. Most offenses do not run four verticals out of bunch sets because of the spacing. Instead, many rely on high-low concepts. In order to match up, and stay sound to the boundary, a defense treats the bunch much like it does a stack set. In the diagram below, a “Cold” call is needed to tell the Sam to apex the bunch and hold the curl. The Mike is allowed to stay in the box and hold the run. The CB is responsible for the first outside route, while the Sam is responsible for the first “in” route. The safety holds leverage over the bunch and protects the vertical. To the boundary, the safety and CB stay in quarters coverage allowing the safety to “rob” the curl and attack the run game weak. If spinning, it is best to press the Sam, and have the spinning safety hold the curl. The CB, who is outside the bunch set needs to work over the unit and hold any vertical. If the offense aligns the Bunch set tight to the box, the Sam must align outside the “on the ball” WR and press the outside shoulder. The CB aligns 3×3 off the outside man, holding the edge if there is an outside run play. Teams use the bunch to gain an advantage in the run game, especially is aligned to the box
You might be too!

https://www.mongodb.com/basics/data-stack
dt

Donn Beach
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by Donn Beach » Sun May 14, 2023 10:42 pm

Hurtt on rush vs coverage
“That was kind of rooted in me from the very beginning of when I got into football. In my Miami Hurricane days, we’d play Ed Reed and Phillip Buchanan. We had so many guys in the secondary. It helped us as pass-rushers because quarterbacks had to hold the ball because coverage was tight. And there are times where maybe there could be some challenging routes, but rush got there, so (the two phases) complimented one another. To the people who think rush makes everything so much better, there’s a lot of different ways you can neutralize pass rush. Whether it’s moving the pocket, cadence, chipping guys to knock a guy off, (but) you can’t eliminate a great cover guy.”

Donn Beach
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by Donn Beach » Sun May 14, 2023 10:46 pm

Hurtt again
“A lot of people talk about how there was more two-gapping (in the 3-4 look). We actually did more two-gapping the previous two years. But because of the change the assumption is ‘well, they’re doing this more because of this change to a 3-4’. I’ve stated numerous times I think that’s really overstated and overblown. Fact of the matter is we needed to coach that better and we could’ve played that better than what we did, but it starts with us as coaches to get that stuff rectified and corrected. So in terms of the schematics (of the defense), it’s not that. It’s just playing blocks the right way and cleaning up our fits.”

Donn Beach
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Re: Cliff Avril talks D-Line

Post by Donn Beach » Sun May 14, 2023 11:21 pm

Pete on what changed with the defense
“We have always been a 4-3 scheme that plays with 3-4 personnel,” Carroll said Thursday. “That’s to maintain another position that instead of being a 4-3 down lineman, we would like to have that fourth guy be an athlete that can really run and move and all that. It’s always been an intention to kind of maintain that to get as much speed on the field as possible … That’s to maintain as much athleticism as you can get on the field.”

“What changed last year was the influx of more coverage concepts that we used to do that we just reinvented for us. There was a process to it that is in really good shape right now and I’m jacked about where we are now with putting it all together,” he said. “There was a time here where we had evolved into a pretty simplistic way of playing and we kicked butt with it and it worked out great and players matched up and and all that. And then I lost coaches on both sides of the ball and they took our scheme everywhere and people knew how to get after it, because we really had some real intricacies about that made it unique. We’ve just continued to grow and adapt. You’ve got to keep getting better, so that’s where we’ve changed.”
Some other stuff in here
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1756389/ ... hers-more/

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