The trade off of perceived effort vs production.

[Michael K.]

But you arent going to find enough Egars at one time to field a team in the first place. Do you think there are guys that can rake that arent getting a chance because of their defense? You can believe offense is a lot more important than defense but you still have to find the guys that can hit.

Well, the Mariners at least use it as an excuse. Defensive flexibility and being able to platoon seem to out weigh if they can hit and maybe just DH.

[Donn Beach]

Sure, sorting by worst defenders, I'll pick a cheap, unbeatable Defense Shmefense team.

DH: Yordan Alvarez, 1.059 OPS, 186 wRC+, $19M
C: Ben Rice, .971 OPS, 166 wRC+, $800k
1B: Yandy Diaz, .888 OPS, 148 wRC+, $9M
2B: Luis Arraez, .809 OPS, 127 wRC+, $12M (and he's all of a sudden not even a bad defender anymore, lol)
SS: Nick Kurtz, .902 OPS, 148 wRC+, $800k
3B: Junior Caminero, .927 OPS, 152 wRC+, $800k
LF: James Wood, .985 OPS, 166 wRC+, $800k
CF: Bryan Reynolds, .877 OPS, 143 wRC+, $13M
RF: Jordan Walker, .886 OPS, 143wRC+, $800k

Total of $58M, not sure what this exercise proves.

What does saying you could win with a roster of Edgars prove? I thought you were saying you could beat the system by focusing on just offense, one dimensional players lets call them. Im saying play GM. Put together a roster of players that you would consider under valued because they are hit only. Im trying to put your edgar premise into action. Im not talking about the best young players under team control. Im talking about under valued because of their defense. Like Beane did with obp. Isnt that what you are getting at, market inefficiency?

I'm saying I would take the best bat I could fill a position with regardless (almost) of their defensive ability. They can defend like a softball team. And then hit like one.

Like when I said I'd go after Luis Arraez this past offseason regardless of his defense.

Pitching is 100x more important than defense. It won't matter what defense is out there with a good pitcher.

Those are the parameters I would work under.

OK, I think I was really missing the point, and I thought it was an interesting point. But still if you're putting the best bat at each position then your going to be fielding a pretty good team. I don't see the argument with that. What we are talking about is a market inefficiency. I'm trying to figure out how it be applied. Offense in my mind gets paid. Im trying to figure out how you could focus on offense as a cost saving strategy

[bpj]

What does saying you could win with a roster of Edgars prove? I thought you were saying you could beat the system by focusing on just offense, one dimensional players lets call them. Im saying play GM. Put together a roster of players that you would consider under valued because they are hit only. Im trying to put your edgar premise into action. Im not talking about the best young players under team control. Im talking about under valued because of their defense. Like Beane did with obp. Isnt that what you are getting at, market inefficiency?

I'm saying I would take the best bat I could fill a position with regardless (almost) of their defensive ability. They can defend like a softball team. And then hit like one.

Like when I said I'd go after Luis Arraez this past offseason regardless of his defense.

Pitching is 100x more important than defense. It won't matter what defense is out there with a good pitcher.

Those are the parameters I would work under.

OK, I think I was really missing the point, and I thought it was an interesting point. But still if you're putting the best bat at each position then your going to be fielding a pretty good team. I don't see the argument with that. What we are talking about is a market inefficiency. I'm trying to figure out how it be applied. Offense in my mind gets paid. Im trying to figure out how you could focus on offense as a cost saving strategy

It be applied by getting guys like Luis Arraez when they're available because his bat is Ichiro minus the speed and you can stash him at 2B.

But everyone started whining about his defense like little bitches. Now he has the second highest batting average in MLB and according to fWAR for those who love nerdstats, has been the 8th best player in MLB so far with 3.7 WAR.

[D-train]

And his D miraculously got massively better...

[D-train]

And his OPS+ went from 102 to 136.

[D-train]

I guess you are the antithesis of Jerry. You picked a guy that had a meh year in 2025 and now is having a great year. lol

[D-train]

And you picked a guy that was 29 yo instead of 35 yo. I guess that didn't even work for Jerry with Naylor.

[Michael K.]

Naylor got paid, and now it doesn't matter to him. I hate the way baseball operates. The Mariners are fucked, because they have to over pay to get guys to come to Southern Alaska to play, and then they suck because the stadium is too big and they are fat and happy from being over paid.

Naylor made $583,500 in 2021 in Cleveland. First year of arbitration he made 2.05. The second year 3.35. Third year, 6.55. Last year he made 6.35. That is a five year total of nearly $19 million.

He will make $92.5 million over the next 5 years, whether he is worth it or not. He wont even be CLOSE to worth it. And yet it won't matter, he'll make the money.

But it goes to show you why the Mariners are reluctant to spend. They want the guys busting their ass to try and get paid, not the fuckers sitting on their asses after they got paid. I guess I can understand that. I don't have to like it though.

[Seattle or Bust]

Naylor got paid, and now it doesn't matter to him. I hate the way baseball operates. The Mariners are fucked, because they have to over pay to get guys to come to Southern Alaska to play, and then they suck because the stadium is too big and they are fat and happy from being over paid.

Naylor made $583,500 in 2021 in Cleveland. First year of arbitration he made 2.05. The second year 3.35. Third year, 6.55. Last year he made 6.35. That is a five year total of nearly $19 million.

He will make $92.5 million over the next 5 years, whether he is worth it or not. He wont even be CLOSE to worth it. And yet it won't matter, he'll make the money.

But it goes to show you why the Mariners are reluctant to spend. They want the guys busting their ass to try and get paid, not the fuckers sitting on their asses after they got paid. I guess I can understand that. I don't have to like it though.

The only saving grace for Naylor is he typically has pretty bipolar splits by half.

2019: .600 OPS / .787 OPS

2020: Covid

2021: Hurt

2022: .835 OPS / .709 OPS

2023: .825 OPS / .875 OPS

2024: .816 OPS / .717 OPS

2025: .817 OPS / .813 OPS (outlier)

Seems he either starts hot and falls off or starts slow and has a nice second half.

[bpj]

And you picked a guy that was 29 yo instead of 35 yo. I guess that didn't even work for Jerry with Naylor.

That was one of the reasons I liked him, same age as Cal.

He played in a tough park the year before. I thought Seattle would be a good spot for a guy like him because it was a good spot for Ichiro.

And he plays 2B, doesn't block up a power position like RF. It's like a no-brainer to me.