The real history of Islam

[gil]

I watched a *little* here and there. I don't see how I can spend an hour watching something that is pretty much just one person's opinion. It seems supported by facts here and there, but I have a strong suspicion that he started with the conclusion/opinion that he already had (i.e., Islam is violent and evil), and then mustered facts to support that opinion. I know, most of us do things like this, but it really doesn't do much more than say "look, here is someone who agrees with me!"

I was struck by, at the beginning, how he has the graph of Christianity's spread in the first half of the first millennium, and then Islam's spend in the second half of the first millennium. His story seemed to be that Christianity spread because of Jesus and his ideas and teachings -- such as love thy neighbor, care for those in need, and the Sermon on the Mount (good things all, IMO) -- but then Islam spread because of violence.Its a tidy narrative, but it seems too simple. It seems to me that the history of who rules what is basically a history of violence. Am I wrong?

I fast forwarded to hear him saying what I interpreted as the invading Muslims wiping out the Coptic Christians in Egypt. Didn't seem quite right, because one of my work associates is a Coptic Christian from Egypt.

Anyway, the guy has a book, and a story, but I'm not convinced I should buy either or look at the video again.

WallWalla: let us know if I got anything wrong.

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

Plenty......

I watched a *little* here and there. I don't see how I can spend an hour watching something that is pretty much just one person's opinion. It seems supported by facts here and there, but I have a strong suspicion that he started with the conclusion/opinion that he already had (i.e., Islam is violent and evil), and then mustered facts to support that opinion. I know, most of us do things like this, but it really doesn't do much more than say "look, here is someone who agrees with me!"

When it comes to Islam, all you can have is an opinion. As they spread, they looted, enslaved and destroyed all history of that event. They had the Coran and that is all they needed. If a book didn't agree with the Coran, it was wrong and needed to be destroyed and if it did agree with the Coran then it was redundant.

Islam has the least documented rise to power of any religion.

I was struck by, at the beginning, how he has the graph of Christianity's spread in the first half of the first millennium, and then Islam's spend in the second half of the first millennium. His story seemed to be that Christianity spread because of Jesus and his ideas and teachings -- such as love thy neighbor, care for those in need, and the Sermon on the Mount (good things all, IMO) -- but then Islam spread because of violence.Its a tidy narrative, but it seems too simple. It seems to me that the history of who rules what is basically a history of violence. Am I wrong?

If you don't like the narrative, then watch the entire video. He goes over the history of Muhamad and the enslavement and violence. And when violence didn't work, they moved their poor into the area and caused economic issues and crime.

Is it tidy..... yes it is. But I find that the truth is often a tidy thing.

I fast forwarded to hear him saying what I interpreted as the invading Muslims wiping out the Coptic Christians in Egypt. Didn't seem quite right, because one of my work associates is a Coptic Christian from Egypt.

I don't think he said that they wiped out all of the Coptic Christians, but certainly wiped out enough that they no longer exist in any large number.

Did you see the part of the video where Islam does 'allow' other religions to exist, but they MUST pay a tax?

Anyway, the guy has a book, and a story, but I'm not convinced I should buy either or look at the video again.

That's up to you......
Watch [assumed] less than half a video, then form an opinion.....I guess that says a lot about you. Forming an opinion without seeing all you can see.

Either way, it isn't racist because Islam isn't a race.

[douche]

Here's some blanket garbage:

"Islam is an Abrahamic religion based on the Quran and the teachings of Muhammad."

Not a race. A religion.

[gil]

Plenty......

I watched a *little* here and there. I don't see how I can spend an hour watching something that is pretty much just one person's opinion. It seems supported by facts here and there, but I have a strong suspicion that he started with the conclusion/opinion that he already had (i.e., Islam is violent and evil), and then mustered facts to support that opinion. I know, most of us do things like this, but it really doesn't do much more than say "look, here is someone who agrees with me!"

When it comes to Islam, all you can have is an opinion. As they spread, they looted, enslaved and destroyed all history of that event. They had the Coran and that is all they needed. If a book didn't agree with the Coran, it was wrong and needed to be destroyed and if it did agree with the Coran then it was redundant.

Islam has the least documented rise to power of any religion.

I was struck by, at the beginning, how he has the graph of Christianity's spread in the first half of the first millennium, and then Islam's spend in the second half of the first millennium. His story seemed to be that Christianity spread because of Jesus and his ideas and teachings -- such as love thy neighbor, care for those in need, and the Sermon on the Mount (good things all, IMO) -- but then Islam spread because of violence.Its a tidy narrative, but it seems too simple. It seems to me that the history of who rules what is basically a history of violence. Am I wrong?

If you don't like the narrative, then watch the entire video. He goes over the history of Muhamad and the enslavement and violence. And when violence didn't work, they moved their poor into the area and caused economic issues and crime.

Is it tidy..... yes it is. But I find that the truth is often a tidy thing.

I fast forwarded to hear him saying what I interpreted as the invading Muslims wiping out the Coptic Christians in Egypt. Didn't seem quite right, because one of my work associates is a Coptic Christian from Egypt.

I don't think he said that they wiped out all of the Coptic Christians, but certainly wiped out enough that they no longer exist in any large number.

Did you see the part of the video where Islam does 'allow' other religions to exist, but they MUST pay a tax?

Anyway, the guy has a book, and a story, but I'm not convinced I should buy either or look at the video again.

That's up to you......
Watch [assumed] less than half a video, then form an opinion.....I guess that says a lot about you. Forming an opinion without seeing all you can see.

Either way, it isn't racist because Islam isn't a race.

A couple things,

When it comes to Islam, all you can have is an opinion.

That is consistent with what I said. The parts I watched of the video struck me as his opinion. With a narrative and supposed facts to support it, but basically opinion.

If you don't like the narrative, then watch the entire video.

As I said, I didn't watch much. I just didn't think what I saw would make it worth spending an hour. Hell, it's like the Mariners. I don't need to see every pitch to get the basic idea of how the season is going.

All this violence and erasing history you are describe happened when? In 600-800 AD? Why do people care about something that long ago? I'm not being flip. People on this forum tell me that it doesn't matter what happened to American blacks in the 1950s (or all the way beck to the days of slavery for that matter) because we got civil rights legislation and fixed everything. 70 years ago is ancient history, but 1,200-1,400 years ago matters. Because? To what end?