Does Nikki Haley believe that slavery was the cause of the Civil War?

[D-train]

Interesting she wouldn't acknowledge it Wednesday even when asked directly



Gee, I don't know....it's wrong?

It's an absurd question. It's like Black lives matter. You are essentially presuming that people are racist moronic trash and need to be told that slavery is bad or that Black Lives matter.

It's not ubsurd it's a legitimate topic. I don't understand what you mean about presumptions. it's interesting she goes through an explanation and leaves it out. The next day she decides to include it.

I didn't mean she had to say it was wrong. She asked the question. That was just a suggestion. Terms of the civil war, there be any number of things she could come up with. What's the deal, she's doesn't want to talk about it? Like she points out, she's from the south, it's part of her history

Not saying the Civil War was about slavery was dumb but it doesn't mean she thinks slavery is or was ok so why ask her about it when the answer is obvious. No politician in 2023 is going to advocate or forgive slavery so it is a pointless question.

When you name an org. Black Lives Matter means you think there are a significant portion of society that don't think Black Lives matter and need to be told that Black Lives actually do Matter which is beyond ridiculous and insulting divisive race baiting.

[Donn Beach]

Nobody asked her about slavery, or was it about her needing to claim it was bad. She was asked about the causes of the civil war. She sermed reluctant to include it.

From the stranger things department, something Ron DeSantis and I can agree on, his description of Harleys answer

“incomprehensible word salad”

She was asked a relatively straightforward question and gave a strange convoluted answer.. I was trying to cut her a break in terms of where she got that answer. She wants government to ensure freedoms how about politicians not giving answers that make your head want to explode. She's running for president she screwed up, that simple.

[gil]

It's an absurd question. It's like Black lives matter. You are essentially presuming that people are racist moronic trash and need to be told that slavery is bad or that Black Lives matter.

It's not ubsurd it's a legitimate topic. I don't understand what you mean about presumptions. it's interesting she goes through an explanation and leaves it out. The next day she decides to include it.

I didn't mean she had to say it was wrong. She asked the question. That was just a suggestion. Terms of the civil war, there be any number of things she could come up with. What's the deal, she's doesn't want to talk about it? Like she points out, she's from the south, it's part of her history

Not saying the Civil War was about slavery was dumb but it doesn't mean she thinks slavery is or was ok so why ask her about it when the answer is obvious. No politician in 2023 is going to advocate or forgive slavery so it is a pointless question.

When you name an org. Black Lives Matter means you think there are a significant portion of society that don't think Black Lives matter and need to be told that Black Lives actually do Matter which is beyond ridiculous and insulting divisive race baiting.

No politician in 2023 is going to advocate or forgive slavery so it is a pointless question

I see a bit more nuance here, and the context is primarily set by Haley's original response: "I mean, I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run. The freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do ..." I think there is a significant "revisionist" viewpoint that claims the civil war was about things like states' rights and not about slavery. That is, the "Lost Cause" argument, https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lost-Cause. Taken literally, what "freedoms" was Haley (or anyone else who espouses the Lost Cause arguments) referring to? All I can deduce is that it refers to the freedom of some people to have slaves. Feel free to disagree.

Meanwhile, Alexander Stephens, who was Vice President of the Confederate States of America from 1861-1865, said:

“Our new government is founded upon…the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition.”

That seems pretty clear to me.

Slavery is part of our history. I don't see it at all as being evil southerners versus pure as driven snow northerners. It's more complicated. But I definitely think it's wrong to deny our history. THAT is one way of interpreting Haley's first quote: sanitize history and pretend that the formation of the Confederacy was simply part of the long arc of progress toward freedom.

[DanielVogelbach]

Civil war makes no sense. South was overmatched but didn’t resort to guerilla tactics or try to claim less territory such as just hold down Florida or something.

Bottom line is slavery is alive and well in 2023. Governments don’t end slavery. Governments are slavery by their very own illegitimate and immoral existence.

[D-train]

It's not ubsurd it's a legitimate topic. I don't understand what you mean about presumptions. it's interesting she goes through an explanation and leaves it out. The next day she decides to include it.

I didn't mean she had to say it was wrong. She asked the question. That was just a suggestion. Terms of the civil war, there be any number of things she could come up with. What's the deal, she's doesn't want to talk about it? Like she points out, she's from the south, it's part of her history

Not saying the Civil War was about slavery was dumb but it doesn't mean she thinks slavery is or was ok so why ask her about it when the answer is obvious. No politician in 2023 is going to advocate or forgive slavery so it is a pointless question.

When you name an org. Black Lives Matter means you think there are a significant portion of society that don't think Black Lives matter and need to be told that Black Lives actually do Matter which is beyond ridiculous and insulting divisive race baiting.

No politician in 2023 is going to advocate or forgive slavery so it is a pointless question

I see a bit more nuance here, and the context is primarily set by Haley's original response: "I mean, I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run. The freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do ..." I think there is a significant "revisionist" viewpoint that claims the civil war was about things like states' rights and not about slavery. That is, the "Lost Cause" argument, https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lost-Cause. Taken literally, what "freedoms" was Haley (or anyone else who espouses the Lost Cause arguments) referring to? All I can deduce is that it refers to the freedom of some people to have slaves. Feel free to disagree.

Meanwhile, Alexander Stephens, who was Vice President of the Confederate States of America from 1861-1865, said:

“Our new government is founded upon…the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition.”

That seems pretty clear to me.

Slavery is part of our history. I don't see it at all as being evil southerners versus pure as driven snow northerners. It's more complicated. But I definitely think it's wrong to deny our history. THAT is one way of interpreting Haley's first quote: sanitize history and pretend that the formation of the Confederacy was simply part of the long arc of progress toward freedom.

Sounds like something DiPoto would say. When asked what is your goal every season he said win 54% of games instead of the obvious win a WS.

She went with that convoluted long winded word salad instead of the obvious answer of Slavery.

The must of gone to the same PR School of always pretend you are the smartest person in the room instead of stating the obvious.

[gil]

Not saying the Civil War was about slavery was dumb but it doesn't mean she thinks slavery is or was ok so why ask her about it when the answer is obvious. No politician in 2023 is going to advocate or forgive slavery so it is a pointless question.

When you name an org. Black Lives Matter means you think there are a significant portion of society that don't think Black Lives matter and need to be told that Black Lives actually do Matter which is beyond ridiculous and insulting divisive race baiting.

No politician in 2023 is going to advocate or forgive slavery so it is a pointless question

I see a bit more nuance here, and the context is primarily set by Haley's original response: "I mean, I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run. The freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do ..." I think there is a significant "revisionist" viewpoint that claims the civil war was about things like states' rights and not about slavery. That is, the "Lost Cause" argument, https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lost-Cause. Taken literally, what "freedoms" was Haley (or anyone else who espouses the Lost Cause arguments) referring to? All I can deduce is that it refers to the freedom of some people to have slaves. Feel free to disagree.

Meanwhile, Alexander Stephens, who was Vice President of the Confederate States of America from 1861-1865, said:

“Our new government is founded upon…the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition.”

That seems pretty clear to me.

Slavery is part of our history. I don't see it at all as being evil southerners versus pure as driven snow northerners. It's more complicated. But I definitely think it's wrong to deny our history. THAT is one way of interpreting Haley's first quote: sanitize history and pretend that the formation of the Confederacy was simply part of the long arc of progress toward freedom.

Sounds like something DiPoto would say. When asked what is your goal every season he said win 54% of games instead of the obvious win a WS.

She went with that convoluted long winded word salad instead of the obvious answer of Slavery.

The must of gone to the same PR School of always pretend you are the smartest person in the room instead of stating the obvious.

Interesting comparison. It seems to me that DiPoto has been getting skewered (here and elsewhere) because he doesn't intend to (and can't based on budget constraints) compete for the WS every year. So he walks it back saying something like "of course if you average 54% wins over a period of years, you will eventually get to WS." But he said what he meant the first time, right? 54% is good enough.

What I didn't get about Haley was how she could say - in walking it back - something like "when I said 'the freedoms of what people could and couldn't do' I meant slavery." I think she had her answer ready at the town hall, and it was not "slavery", and I think that is because she (correctly in my opinion) believes that a significant percentage of Republicans don't want slavery to be discussed or even mentioned. Like DiPoto, she said what she meant the first time.

[D-train]

Civil war makes no sense. South was overmatched but didn’t resort to guerilla tactics or try to claim less territory such as just hold down Florida or something.

Bottom line is slavery is alive and well in 2023. Governments don’t end slavery. Governments are slavery by their very own illegitimate and immoral existence.

Comparing our current lives to this is beyond ludicrous. It is like comparing J6 to 911.

slave.JPG (224.69 KiB) Viewed 622 times

[gil]

Civil war makes no sense. South was overmatched but didn’t resort to guerilla tactics or try to claim less territory such as just hold down Florida or something.

Bottom line is slavery is alive and well in 2023. Governments don’t end slavery. Governments are slavery by their very own illegitimate and immoral existence.

Comparing our current lives to this is beyond ludicrous. It is like comparing J6 to 911.

slave.JPG

Agree.

[D-train]

Civil war makes no sense. South was overmatched but didn’t resort to guerilla tactics or try to claim less territory such as just hold down Florida or something.

Bottom line is slavery is alive and well in 2023. Governments don’t end slavery. Governments are slavery by their very own illegitimate and immoral existence.

Comparing our current lives to this is beyond ludicrous. It is like comparing J6 to 911.

slave.JPG

Agree.

I think about it on occasion. I am sure there were some benevolent Plantation owners that realized that treating them fairly well was a good business decision but I am also sure there was some demonic AF Slave masters that oversaw the day to day operations that laid awake at night thinking of creative ways to dehumanize and torture then given there were zero repercussions.

[Donn Beach]

Exactly, there is nothing compatible today to slavery as an institution. And it wasn't just the united states, it was institutionalized all through the americas. And it was massive. 30% of the population of the south was enslaved. The economic system was driven by slavery. And when you talk about it being the cause of the civil war it wasn't about freeing slaves. It's the secondary issues, the economic and political pressures that were building between the north and the south.

So Haley did claim when she brought up freedoms she was thinking of slavery, interesting. When you're trying to run a campaign and need to spend days repeatedly trying to clarify a botched comment that's just terrible.