It is on the players now. Jerry delivered.

[DanielVogelbach]

Looking at the data it's clear that they spend at a normal clip compared to everyone else in relation to total revenue. They aren't exceedingly spendy or cheap.

Bottom line is that even small market teams on low payrolls can compete for championships. It's obviously easier if you spend more money, but a bad GM can easily run up a large payroll without many wins to show for it. Similarly, a proper blow up and rebuild can yield a great team on the cheap.

So, this idea that the Ms futility is based on payroll being too tight is baseless. Sure, if you don't have a top 5 payroll you might not be able to sustain winning every single year, but you can still make your runs. It takes a special type of ineptitude to suck as bad as the Mariners have. They would always spend money on some well known, over the hill free agent to sell tickets. Then they would finish around .500. Just absolute consistency of mediocrity. Cano and Cruz. Beltre. Felix. Just enough to be decent, but never just blow it all up and stockpile prospects. The prospects are what help you win on the cheap, and they're also what you use to make deadline deals.

Obviously the Mariners front-office has been bad. But, this team seems like a good one. Jerry delivered this time 100%. As a Mariner fan, I think this is a high water mark in terms of excitement.

[DanielVogelbach]

Team | 2024 Revenue ($M) | 2025 Payroll ($M) | Payroll % Revenue | Rank
------------------------|-------------------|-------------------|------------------|------
New York Mets | 400 | 323.1 | 80.8 | 1
Los Angeles Dodgers | 701 | 340.8 | 48.6 | 2
New York Yankees | 705 | 311.0 | 44.1 | 3
Philadelphia Phillies | 425 | 218.9 | 51.5 | 4
Atlanta Braves | 450 | 216.0 | 48.0 | 5
Chicago Cubs | 492 | 206.9 | 42.0 | 6
Texas Rangers | 400 | 197.3 | 49.3 | 7
Houston Astros | 430 | 197.0 | 45.8 | 8
Boston Red Sox | 500 | 197.2 | 39.4 | 9
Toronto Blue Jays | 400 | 194.9 | 48.7 | 10
San Francisco Giants | 450 | 190.6 | 42.4 | 11
San Diego Padres | 400 | 188.0 | 47.0 | 12
Los Angeles Angels | 400 | 173.2 | 43.3 | 13
Seattle Mariners | 350 | 154.9 | 44.3 | 14
St. Louis Cardinals | 400 | 141.5 | 35.4 | 15
Colorado Rockies | 350 | 136.4 | 39.0 | 16
Arizona Diamondbacks | 360 | 134.3 | 37.3 | 17
Minnesota Twins | 370 | 126.7 | 34.2 | 18
Kansas City Royals | 330 | 113.0 | 34.2 | 19
Baltimore Orioles | 325 | 106.9 | 32.9 | 20
Detroit Tigers | 340 | 104.8 | 30.8 | 21
Milwaukee Brewers | 320 | 104.7 | 32.7 | 22
Washington Nationals | 310 | 104.3 | 33.6 | 23
Cincinnati Reds | 310 | 99.0 | 31.9 | 24
Pittsburgh Pirates | 300 | 92.2 | 30.7 | 25
Cleveland Guardians | 300 | 90.4 | 30.1 | 26
Tampa Bay Rays | 280 | 85.2 | 30.4 | 27
Miami Marlins | 280 | 78.8 | 28.1 | 28
Chicago White Sox | 270 | 77.9 | 28.9 | 29
Oakland Athletics | 250 | 60.8 | 24.3 | 30

[DanielVogelbach]

Mariners spend 44% of revenue on payroll. By the numbers, they aren't exceedingly cheap.

[DavidGee24]

Mariners spend 44% of revenue on payroll. By the numbers, they aren't exceedingly cheap.

I would agree that they're not totally cheap where their normal roster is concerned. The problem is that when it comes to taking that last step, that's when they become totally cheap, with the result being signing a corpse like Donovan Solano. Hopefully Dipoto finally learned from that horrible mistake.

[DanielVogelbach]

Mariners spend 44% of revenue on payroll. By the numbers, they aren't exceedingly cheap.

I would agree that they're not totally cheap where their normal roster is concerned. The problem is that when it comes to taking that last step, that's when they become totally cheap, with the result being signing a corpse like Donovan Solano. Hopefully Dipoto finally learned from that horrible mistake.

Explain how the "last piece" is different than the "normal roster"

[Hy Feiber]

I wish I could watch other teams and be engaged with what's going on. I feel like that's a real shortcoming of mine as a baseball fan.

I would say that I’m an objective observer of the game now, in fact; if the Astros somehow manage to win the division, I would pick their guy to be Manager of the Year.

The number of players on the injured list has to be a record.

[D-train]

That being said, the Mariners spend plenty of money to win games. Their futility is not based on lack of spending. Spending more could help, but you don't need to be a top 5 payroll to win a World Series. The league is set up for small market teams to have windows of competitiveness. The key to this is the 6 years of club control on all new call-ups. Then if you sign to a small extension you get the player for 9 years before they can go to Los Angeles or New York. They can win more games without spending more money. It's called smart management. It's called player development.

The M 's are not a small market team and they don't make small market revenue. They have the 12th largest media Market in the country and also control rights for Portland which is the 20th largest media market in the country. They are near the top in Profit Margin every year. There is no reason for them to be in the bottom half of the League in spending. Nobody is asking them to be top 5 in spending just be in line with your revenue.

If you combine Seattle and Portland they are 4th. Even if you assume a smaller % of Mariner fans in Portland which is likely that is made up for by Alaska, Montana and Idaho. I have had forum members from all 3 of those states at my Forum parties.

[DanielVogelbach]

If you combine Seattle and Portland they are 4th. Even if you assume a smaller % of Mariner fans in Portland which is likely that is made up for by Alaska, Montana and Idaho. I have had forum members from all 3 of those states at my Forum parties.

4th largest or whatever, the in-person attendance and TV revenue is on record.

According to the revenue vs payroll numbers they are basically totally average. Not exceedingly spendy or exceedingly cheap.

You really can't complain right now is all I'm saying. Historically, it's quite rare that the Seattle Mariners have ever been in a much better spot than they are on 8/1/2025.

[Sibelius Hindemith]

I think you're vastly overestimating the ROI on winning. In fact, when the Braves won 15 straight division championships they couldn't even sell out their stadium for round 1 of the post season. You're basically dealing with a captive audience that isn't going to switch allegiances. You guys know damn well you're not just going to suddenly become a Mets fan because Dipoto isn't opening up his wallet. If you're gonna consume any baseball, it's gonna be Mariner baseball.

Where they really stand (and have stood) to increase revenue is in the streaming/cable markets. The people that attend the games are mainly there for the stadium "experience" and care less about the outcome of the game than the fans that stay home or live too far to go. I think the number of people that either watched on cable (hence driving up the ratings and advertizing revenue) or now pay for streaming is more given to fluctuations in accord with how well the team is performing.