Finally! Official Hot Stove League Thread

[bpj]

Forum contributors who still play baseball or softball deserve our admiration.

But those beer leaguers would be the first to admit they're not ready to compete at the MLB level.

We forum contributors expressed ourselves to the best of our abilities given our limited information and expertise.

However, we and the Seattle front office don't possess the same information and expertise. We're amateurs! Metaphorically we're trying to hit big league pitching.

Mariner executives probably won't share with us a detailed explanation why a nearly 32-year-old reliever is worth the 22-year-old California League Pitcher of the Year. But the front office undoubtedly has its reasons.

At least now we know you're a lawyer so that's why you keep sounding like you're using a boilerplate.

We forum contributors expressed ourselves to the best of our abilities given our limited information and expertise.

As Dtrain mentioned, Jerry expressed himself since 2016 by spending $177M on underperforming players that put up just 6 WAR total across 7 years.

To complete the trades for a number of those players Dipoto traded away young players that have put up 28+ WAR at minimum wage in that same timeframe.

So you'll have to forgive us if we feel that questioning his decision making is warranted, Counselor.

[harmony]

Forum contributors who still play baseball or softball deserve our admiration.

But those beer leaguers would be the first to admit they're not ready to compete at the MLB level.

We forum contributors expressed ourselves to the best of our abilities given our limited information and expertise.

However, we and the Seattle front office don't possess the same information and expertise. We're amateurs! Metaphorically we're trying to hit big league pitching.

Mariner executives probably won't share with us a detailed explanation why a nearly 32-year-old reliever is worth the 22-year-old California League Pitcher of the Year. But the front office undoubtedly has its reasons.

Sorry I don't share your inferiority complex that makes you think Jerry Dipoto who paid $177M for 6 WAR over the years is some enlightened genius with access to some mysterious treasure trove of data that makes him make idiot decisions.

A humble poster avoids a deluded sense of superiority.

The beer league offers a worthwhile activity even if its players cannot compete at the MLB level.

A baseball forum offers a worthwhile activity even if its armchair GMs lack the information and expertise of their real-life MLB counterparts.

How do the cherry-picked "$177M for 6 WAR" numbers compare with those of other MLB franchises?

[harmony]

Forum contributors who still play baseball or softball deserve our admiration.

But those beer leaguers would be the first to admit they're not ready to compete at the MLB level.

We forum contributors expressed ourselves to the best of our abilities given our limited information and expertise.

However, we and the Seattle front office don't possess the same information and expertise. We're amateurs! Metaphorically we're trying to hit big league pitching.

Mariner executives probably won't share with us a detailed explanation why a nearly 32-year-old reliever is worth the 22-year-old California League Pitcher of the Year. But the front office undoubtedly has its reasons.

At least now we know you're a lawyer so that's why you keep sounding like you're using a boilerplate.

We forum contributors expressed ourselves to the best of our abilities given our limited information and expertise.

As Dtrain mentioned, Jerry expressed himself since 2016 by spending $177M on underperforming players that put up just 6 WAR total across 7 years.

To complete the trades for a number of those players Dipoto traded away young players that have put up 28+ WAR at minimum wage in that same timeframe.

So you'll have to forgive us if we feel that questioning his decision making is warranted, Counselor.

Duly noted.

Thank you for the feedback.

[D-train]

Forum contributors who still play baseball or softball deserve our admiration.

But those beer leaguers would be the first to admit they're not ready to compete at the MLB level.

We forum contributors expressed ourselves to the best of our abilities given our limited information and expertise.

However, we and the Seattle front office don't possess the same information and expertise. We're amateurs! Metaphorically we're trying to hit big league pitching.

Mariner executives probably won't share with us a detailed explanation why a nearly 32-year-old reliever is worth the 22-year-old California League Pitcher of the Year. But the front office undoubtedly has its reasons.

Sorry I don't share your inferiority complex that makes you think Jerry Dipoto who paid $177M for 6 WAR over the years is some enlightened genius with access to some mysterious treasure trove of data that makes him make idiot decisions.

A humble poster avoids a deluded sense of superiority.

The beer league offers a worthwhile activity even if its players cannot compete at the MLB level.

A baseball forum offers a worthwhile activity even if its armchair GMs lack the information and expertise of their real-life MLB counterparts.

How do the cherry-picked "$177M for 6 WAR" numbers compare with those of other MLB franchises?

Right after they signed Romo last off season I quickly looked at his 2021 game logs which showed in his last 13 appearances he had a 12.74 ERA and gave up a 1.185 OPS.

I called out the signing for being idiotic. Alas after 17 appearances and a 8.14 ERA the $2M was wasted and Romo was DFAd in mid June. Perhaps they should just use Baseball Reference instead of whatever trash data they have access they have that told them to waste $2M on a 39 yo washed reliever.

I suggested they sign Chafin who put up a 2.83 ERA, 10.5 Ks per 9 and a 3.06 FIP for the Tigers and could have come in to face Alvarez instead of a struggling Robbie in the AB that essentially ended our season. They chose Romo to save $5M.

My sense of Superiority is well founded.

[D-train]

When it comes to drafting college pitchers and signing international Latin American talent happy to admit I am inferior.

[gil]

I'm confused about how WAR applies here, whether the M's trades have been beneficial (or not) overall, etc.

"$177M for 6 WAR" is being repeated in several posts. That's 6 wins above replacement level, right? So what is the analysis of how the Ms came to win 90 games each of the past 2 years? Is it all home grown talent (i.e., not the result of trades or FA signings)? Would we have had a higher WAR (and presumably higher win total) without the trade activity?

[desbcoach]

When it comes to drafting college pitchers and signing international Latin American talent happy to admit I am inferior.

LOL way to check the ego

[D-train]

When it comes to drafting college pitchers and signing international Latin American talent happy to admit I am inferior.

LOL way to check the ego

See I am not unreasonable man.

[bpj]

I'm confused about how WAR applies here, whether the M's trades have been beneficial (or not) overall, etc.

"$177M for 6 WAR" is being repeated in several posts. That's 6 wins above replacement level, right? So what is the analysis of how the Ms came to win 90 games each of the past 2 years? Is it all home grown talent (i.e., not the result of trades or FA signings)? Would we have had a higher WAR (and presumably higher win total) without the trade activity?

Well, that's the point of the original post-

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7688#p222907

Fangraphs has a value on WAR at around $8M per WAR.

177/8=22

So a team would hope to get around 22 wins for the dollars he sunk into these players, but that's before taking into account what was also given up in the trades.

Dipito got 6 WAR from this group. Total.

And traded away players who got 28 WAR in the same timeframe to get it.

-22 WAR net. And he spent $177M for that.

Will break it down the next day or two when I get time, but the wins have come mostly from young players coming up.

There are also moves like Robbie Ray and Adam Frazier that weren't included in the list of "bad moves" that put up some WAR so they weren't held against Dipoto in this list.

He's had a couple trades that weren't clear losers (Haniger/France) that obviously helped the team.

Unfortunately there just haven't been very many of those.

[ddraig]

I am totally convinced that at times Dipoto places Tops Baseball Cards of available FA's face up on a table, picks one or two, and those are the guys he goes after. He doesn't even read the reverse side of the cards. Sometimes he gets lucky. Seems like at most times, we pay millions for dogs.