Salk on PC

Michael K.
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by Michael K. » Thu Sep 14, 2023 1:52 am

Donn Beach wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 1:38 am
From last season...it wasn't death by a thousand cuts, it was big chunks
When Seattle won the Super Bowl in 2013 with one of the greatest defenses in league history, the Seahawks allowed 82 explosive plays over the 16-game regular season.

Four games into 2022, the Seahawks have already allowed half that many (41) including 12 against the Lions. Seattle also allowed 11 each to Atlanta and Denver and seven to the 49ers.

“What’s happening is the explosive plays are affecting drives as they always do,” Carroll said. “You have an explosive play, the odds of scoring points goes way up. And really, that’s the big concern right now.”

But solving that problem isn’t so easy.

Carroll said there was no one culprit Sunday as the Lions marched up and down the field, with seven plays of 21 yards or longer including an 81-yard catch-and-run by tight end T.J. Hockenson that was the longest play Seattle has allowed since Carroll took over as coach in 2010.

“It’s not any one thing,” Carroll said. “It’s not the coverage that we’re playing or the style of stuff [the Seahawks are playing] or any of that. We just have to execute better and not give up the yardage we’re giving up
That's the fucking Lions game dude. Did you watch us play last year, or did you search for something that matched your agenda? The reason they give up big plays? Is because they play so far off the fucking ball, then give up the catch and have to try and catch up. Name the last time we got beat because someone got behind us and we gave up a bomb. Again, watch the fucking games. Atlanta, Tampa, New Olreans, Carolina, last Sunday. Clock eating drives because we would rather make a tackle two yards behind the first down marker than challenge someone. It's fucking chicken shit. His bullshit defenses have been getting ass rammed since 2017, but Holy Shit, he won a Super Bowl with the best defense in NFL history, so he must be a genius!
That the defense struggled isn’t overly shocking. That they struggled so mightily, though, is a punch to the gut to start the season. The Seahawks have ranked well into the bottom half of the league in points and yards allowed since 2017.
Six fucking years of this shit, but yeah, he was real good when he had the greatest of all time. My fucking sister could have won a Super Bowl with that roster. Fuck, she would have won two!

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Donn Beach
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Sep 14, 2023 2:04 am

It isn't nesssarily scoring on an explosive play, it's that drives that include an explosive play have a much higher rate of putting up points than ones that don't.
Since 2010, only roughly 1 of every 10 drives with no explosives has ended in a score, while that rate triples when an offense has even a single explosive play. Once an offense has two explosives they have better than 50% chance to score, and it only increases from there. This is extremely strong evidence that explosives are incredibly valuable. Offenses generally need explosives to score, and if they want to be confident that they’ll score on a drive they need multiple

Michael K.
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by Michael K. » Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:47 am

Donn Beach wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 2:04 am
It isn't nesssarily scoring on an explosive play, it's that drives that include an explosive play have a much higher rate of putting up points than ones that don't.
Since 2010, only roughly 1 of every 10 drives with no explosives has ended in a score, while that rate triples when an offense has even a single explosive play. Once an offense has two explosives they have better than 50% chance to score, and it only increases from there. This is extremely strong evidence that explosives are incredibly valuable. Offenses generally need explosives to score, and if they want to be confident that they’ll score on a drive they need multiple
And? You think the seven, eight and nine minute drives we are suffering through are because we play tight and give up explosive plays? I disagree. We play soft as shit, and get diced up because of it.

Well into the bottom half of the league in points and yards allowed for six year. Throw all the fucking quotes out there you want. It's fucked.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:35 am

I'll tell you what I don't think, I don't think Pete has some sort of tolerance for mistakes as a way to allow his players to perform better. Maybe I'm missing what Salk is trying to get at but that doesn't make sense to me.
Seems to me, Pete hates mistakes, mistakes lead to explosive plays
Whether or not it's relevant to explosive plays, I doubt he's happy with mistakes. I don't think he wants players running around like their hair is on fire.

Occurred to me, Earl Thomas may have lacked discipline. There could have been some tolerance but in the end he was shown the door. Pete may have the crappiest defense in the NFL but I still think he wants his players where they were instructed to be.
In Seattle, despite Thomas’ considerable coverage skills — and they were certainly elite during his Seahawks tenure — he also had a penchant for occasionally freelancing that put stress on the back end of the scheme.

When Kam Chancellor was healthy and playing alongside Thomas, Seattle leaned on him to make sure everyone (including Thomas) knew where they were supposed to be at all times and to understand and cover up scenarios where Thomas might be caught out of place.

This became a concern when Chancellor’s health began to erode. Essentially, Seattle felt like Thomas was at his best (and freest) when he and Chancellor were paired. When that tandem ceased to be viable in the long term, the Seahawks’ hopes that Thomas would mature into Chancellor’s leadership role and on-field reliability never materialized. This played a part in why Seattle was reluctant to give Thomas another long-term extension, as well
From a Bob Condotta article, he seems to think discipline is particularly important to Pete
Discipline is a key concept in all aspects of football. But it’s always been especially critical the way the Seahawks play defense, with players often saying it’s as if they are all tied on a string — if one player goes out of position it can pull all of them astray

Michael K.
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by Michael K. » Thu Sep 14, 2023 2:13 pm

Donn Beach wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:35 am
I'll tell you what I don't think, I don't think Pete has some sort of tolerance for mistakes as a way to allow his players to perform better. Maybe I'm missing what Salk is trying to get at but that doesn't make sense to me.
Seems to me, Pete hates mistakes, mistakes lead to explosive plays
Whether or not it's relevant to explosive plays, I doubt he's happy with mistakes. I don't think he wants players running around like their hair is on fire.

Occurred to me, Earl Thomas may have lacked discipline. There could have been some tolerance but in the end he was shown the door. Pete may have the crappiest defense in the NFL but I still think he wants his players where they were instructed to be.
In Seattle, despite Thomas’ considerable coverage skills — and they were certainly elite during his Seahawks tenure — he also had a penchant for occasionally freelancing that put stress on the back end of the scheme.

When Kam Chancellor was healthy and playing alongside Thomas, Seattle leaned on him to make sure everyone (including Thomas) knew where they were supposed to be at all times and to understand and cover up scenarios where Thomas might be caught out of place.

This became a concern when Chancellor’s health began to erode. Essentially, Seattle felt like Thomas was at his best (and freest) when he and Chancellor were paired. When that tandem ceased to be viable in the long term, the Seahawks’ hopes that Thomas would mature into Chancellor’s leadership role and on-field reliability never materialized. This played a part in why Seattle was reluctant to give Thomas another long-term extension, as well
From a Bob Condotta article, he seems to think discipline is particularly important to Pete
Discipline is a key concept in all aspects of football. But it’s always been especially critical the way the Seahawks play defense, with players often saying it’s as if they are all tied on a string — if one player goes out of position it can pull all of them astray
Are you even arguing with me anymore? You are making my point. His bullshit soft ass theory worked WHEN HE HAD THOSE GUYS. They don't have those guys anymore, he is asking guys that aren't capable to just play soft zone and make the play before the line to gain, and it HASN'T HAPPENED FOR OVER SIX YEARS NOW. Oh, and the game is called differently now too. He tried to adapt, FINALLY, I just think he put his faith in Hurt, and he shouldn't have.

But for Fiuck Sakes, will you stop quoting shit that tells us how great the LOB used to be!? Again, my sister would have coached that team to back to back Super Bowls, so I am not sure Pete should be hanging his hat on the great things his vanilla defense did when he had a roster that was one of the best in NFL history. It wasn't his scheme.

Oh, and thanks for pointing out that a defensive coach thinks discipline is important. I coach HS softball, I think that too. What I don't think is allowing first down after first down because you are afraid you might give up a quick TD is a good idea. And, based on the fact that our defense has sucked for some time? I'd say the numbers support that.

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Donn Beach
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by Donn Beach » Thu Sep 14, 2023 2:26 pm

I wasn't arguing with you in the first place. I questioned that quote Darren put up. It seemed an oddball thing to say.I don't know what it had to do with you

Discipline isn’t usually the calling card of a Carroll-coached team, but Pete seems willing to sacrifice it in order to get his guys to play with their hair on fire. He wants them more concerned with going full speed than making a mistake. And while the downside of that is clear to see in the moment (penalties, mistakes, etc.), the upside more than balances it out.
I'm referring to that, that's what I quoted
Last edited by Donn Beach on Thu Sep 14, 2023 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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D-train
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by D-train » Thu Sep 14, 2023 2:32 pm

Michael K. wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 2:13 pm
Donn Beach wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:35 am
I'll tell you what I don't think, I don't think Pete has some sort of tolerance for mistakes as a way to allow his players to perform better. Maybe I'm missing what Salk is trying to get at but that doesn't make sense to me.
Seems to me, Pete hates mistakes, mistakes lead to explosive plays
Whether or not it's relevant to explosive plays, I doubt he's happy with mistakes. I don't think he wants players running around like their hair is on fire.

Occurred to me, Earl Thomas may have lacked discipline. There could have been some tolerance but in the end he was shown the door. Pete may have the crappiest defense in the NFL but I still think he wants his players where they were instructed to be.
In Seattle, despite Thomas’ considerable coverage skills — and they were certainly elite during his Seahawks tenure — he also had a penchant for occasionally freelancing that put stress on the back end of the scheme.

When Kam Chancellor was healthy and playing alongside Thomas, Seattle leaned on him to make sure everyone (including Thomas) knew where they were supposed to be at all times and to understand and cover up scenarios where Thomas might be caught out of place.

This became a concern when Chancellor’s health began to erode. Essentially, Seattle felt like Thomas was at his best (and freest) when he and Chancellor were paired. When that tandem ceased to be viable in the long term, the Seahawks’ hopes that Thomas would mature into Chancellor’s leadership role and on-field reliability never materialized. This played a part in why Seattle was reluctant to give Thomas another long-term extension, as well
From a Bob Condotta article, he seems to think discipline is particularly important to Pete
Discipline is a key concept in all aspects of football. But it’s always been especially critical the way the Seahawks play defense, with players often saying it’s as if they are all tied on a string — if one player goes out of position it can pull all of them astray
Are you even arguing with me anymore? You are making my point. His bullshit soft ass theory worked WHEN HE HAD THOSE GUYS. They don't have those guys anymore, he is asking guys that aren't capable to just play soft zone and make the play before the line to gain, and it HASN'T HAPPENED FOR OVER SIX YEARS NOW. Oh, and the game is called differently now too. He tried to adapt, FINALLY, I just think he put his faith in Hurt, and he shouldn't have.

But for Fiuck Sakes, will you stop quoting shit that tells us how great the LOB used to be!? Again, my sister would have coached that team to back to back Super Bowls, so I am not sure Pete should be hanging his hat on the great things his vanilla defense did when he had a roster that was one of the best in NFL history. It wasn't his scheme.

Oh, and thanks for pointing out that a defensive coach thinks discipline is important. I coach HS softball, I think that too. What I don't think is allowing first down after first down because you are afraid you might give up a quick TD is a good idea. And, based on the fact that our defense has sucked for some time? I'd say the numbers support that.
Good news is that when Hurtt gets hired as a HC this offseason we will get a draft pick!!! :lol:
dt

auroraave
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by auroraave » Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:39 pm

Oh, and thanks for pointing out that a defensive coach thinks discipline is important. I coach HS softball, I think that too. What I don't think is allowing first down after first down because you are afraid you might give up a quick TD is a good idea. And, based on the fact that our defense has sucked for some time? I'd say the numbers support that.
Honestly, Michael, if your softball team is giving up a lot of first downs and TD's - I don't think you're a very good softball coach. :P

SeattleAddict
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by SeattleAddict » Thu Sep 14, 2023 11:39 pm

the whole "bend but don't break" theory relies on guys making plays. Like it's ok if you give up 2 or 3 first downs if then somebody gets a sack, creates a turnover, makes a play in the backfield... but nobody did that. There wasn't a single defensive play that stood out as exceptional. It's not even that they played that awful, they just didn't do... anything. No sacks, not even any real pressure, no pass breakups, no fumbles forced. Do that, and those 4 and 5 yard gains end up being 16 play drives.

I think the 'hair on fire' mentality is like what Jamal Adams brings. He might get beat in coverage once in a while, but he makes things happen.

Michael K.
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Re: Salk on PC

Post by Michael K. » Fri Sep 15, 2023 5:38 am

auroraave wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:39 pm
Oh, and thanks for pointing out that a defensive coach thinks discipline is important. I coach HS softball, I think that too. What I don't think is allowing first down after first down because you are afraid you might give up a quick TD is a good idea. And, based on the fact that our defense has sucked for some time? I'd say the numbers support that.
Honestly, Michael, if your softball team is giving up a lot of first downs and TD's - I don't think you're a very good softball coach. :P
Haha, in the Fall its SlowPitch, so some of the scores are like low scoring football games!

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