Seahawks vs Viqueens gane thread 12/22/24

[Sibelius Hindemith]

The Vikings are a POS organization. It makes me sick that the Seahawks let them pull that one out with all the taunting and excessive celebrating. Can't wait to see them get fucked up in the playoffs.

[Michael K.]

That Viking offense is the offense that carved up our defense. And that Rams defense is the one that we were two brutal Geno decisions from beating. But our offense was the problem, so much so that the OC was canned after 17 games. I just don't get it.

[auroraave]

That Viking offense is the offense that carved up our defense. And that Rams defense is the one that we were two brutal Geno decisions from beating. But our offense was the problem, so much so that the OC was canned after 17 games. I just don't get it.

Well, Seattle's offense actually "dominated" Minnesota, outgaining them by almost 70 yards. Seattle D held them under 300 yards - Geno lost that game with that brutal pick - one of several this season. Seattle at the very least could have been in position for a game tying field goal - but I don't know where you get Minnesota 'carved up' seattle's defense. They did so on their final drive - other than that the game was mostly even, leaning in Seattle's favor. Seattle blew the game, mostly because of Geno's pick at the end. I don' think that is really debatable.

Minnesota lands in my category of "NR4PT" meaning not ready for prime time. Right now, Seattle is the same, but they just came off a ten year run where they were all ab out prime time. Grubb had to go - I was hoping for another year, but moving on from him is not an unreasonable decision when you look back at the brutal offensive performances we witnessed consistently during the season. 6 points vs the Bears anyone? This forum was all outraged at the awful play calling alllllllllll season - and that task generally falls at the feet of the OC.

[Michael K.]

That Viking offense is the offense that carved up our defense. And that Rams defense is the one that we were two brutal Geno decisions from beating. But our offense was the problem, so much so that the OC was canned after 17 games. I just don't get it.

Well, Seattle's offense actually "dominated" Minnesota, outgaining them by almost 70 yards. Seattle D held them under 300 yards - Geno lost that game with that brutal pick - one of several this season. Seattle at the very least could have been in position for a game tying field goal - but I don't know where you get Minnesota 'carved up' seattle's defense. They did so on their final drive - other than that the game was mostly even, leaning in Seattle's favor. Seattle blew the game, mostly because of Geno's pick at the end. I don' think that is really debatable.

Minnesota lands in my category of "NR4PT" meaning not ready for prime time. Right now, Seattle is the same, but they just came off a ten year run where they were all ab out prime time. Grubb had to go - I was hoping for another year, but moving on from him is not an unreasonable decision when you look back at the brutal offensive performances we witnessed consistently during the season. 6 points vs the Bears anyone? This forum was all outraged at the awful play calling alllllllllll season - and that task generally falls at the feet of the OC.

Yeah, carved up might be too harsh. But the offense handed the defense a lead and the Vikings went 70 yards in four plays over 30 seconds to take the lead for good. But brutal offense all year? Again, besides the Bear's game, which we won, what would you chalk up to brutal besides horrible decisions by the QB. I mean, would you have rather Grubb put in the other guy at QB?

I don't know what more you could ask a first year play caller to do. And watching last night didn't change my mind. Brutal all year? The Offense played well enough against both of those teams to be 3 and 0 against those teams. The Defense blew chunks for four quarters against the Rams backups, but worse yet, we lost at home because they stuffed us on two straight short yardage runs (Run the Ball Grubb) and then the Defense gave up 83 yards in four plays (I smell a theme when the D has a chance to bow up). The D gave up 246 and 3 TDs to Darnold while sacking him three times and forcing no turnovers. Those three sacks were the only TFLs on the game. The Rams had 9 Sacks, forced 2 turnovers and added another TFL. And again, 70 yards in four plays to give up the lead for good.

I keep reading this BS about how the OC had to go after one year, but the numbers just don't add up. They flat out want to run the ball more, and with this O Line? Good Fucking Luck. If the OC had to go? Then so did the DC.

[auroraave]

That Viking offense is the offense that carved up our defense. And that Rams defense is the one that we were two brutal Geno decisions from beating. But our offense was the problem, so much so that the OC was canned after 17 games. I just don't get it.

Well, Seattle's offense actually "dominated" Minnesota, outgaining them by almost 70 yards. Seattle D held them under 300 yards - Geno lost that game with that brutal pick - one of several this season. Seattle at the very least could have been in position for a game tying field goal - but I don't know where you get Minnesota 'carved up' seattle's defense. They did so on their final drive - other than that the game was mostly even, leaning in Seattle's favor. Seattle blew the game, mostly because of Geno's pick at the end. I don' think that is really debatable.

Minnesota lands in my category of "NR4PT" meaning not ready for prime time. Right now, Seattle is the same, but they just came off a ten year run where they were all ab out prime time. Grubb had to go - I was hoping for another year, but moving on from him is not an unreasonable decision when you look back at the brutal offensive performances we witnessed consistently during the season. 6 points vs the Bears anyone? This forum was all outraged at the awful play calling alllllllllll season - and that task generally falls at the feet of the OC.

Yeah, carved up might be too harsh. But the offense handed the defense a lead and the Vikings went 70 yards in four plays over 30 seconds to take the lead for good. But brutal offense all year? Again, besides the Bear's game, which we won, what would you chalk up to brutal besides horrible decisions by the QB. I mean, would you have rather Grubb put in the other guy at QB?

I don't know what more you could ask a first year play caller to do. And watching last night didn't change my mind. Brutal all year? The Offense played well enough against both of those teams to be 3 and 0 against those teams. The Defense blew chunks for four quarters against the Rams backups, but worse yet, we lost at home because they stuffed us on two straight short yardage runs (Run the Ball Grubb) and then the Defense gave up 83 yards in four plays (I smell a theme when the D has a chance to bow up). The D gave up 246 and 3 TDs to Darnold while sacking him three times and forcing no turnovers. Those three sacks were the only TFLs on the game. The Rams had 9 Sacks, forced 2 turnovers and added another TFL. And again, 70 yards in four plays to give up the lead for good.

I keep reading this BS about how the OC had to go after one year, but the numbers just don't add up. They flat out want to run the ball more, and with this O Line? Good Fucking Luck. If the OC had to go? Then so did the DC.

I would have been fine with Grubb coming back, but his departure is on him. If Seattle's oline is the problem, for argument's sake, why are you constantly calling long developing pass plays? I don't believe it's about running the ball more literally - you have to scheme to what you have, Tom Brady played 20 years on one step and quick throws - didn't matter the quality of the oline. We simply did not do that. While Grubb had plenty of great concepts, you have to fundamentally attack with your strengths and avoid your weakness - Grubb simply did not do that. The offense rarely had any rhythm. I think if he had concentrated more on the quick passing game - that would have made a difference. The turnstyle oline and injuries cannot be helped - but I do think if you go uptempo into a quick slant, quick curl kind of plan, you have a better chance. I think Grubb will be fine, he'll land somewhere, but he didn't seem to learn from his mistakes quick enough The offense peaked early in the season while the defense peaked at the end - that shows defensive improvement and regression on offense. You don't fire the leader of the unit that is trending up. The defense phoned it in vs the Lambs - for sure - but the last half of the season they wee carrying the team and showed real progress - you can't say the same thing about the offense - it was just wash rinse repeat. The offense has talent - they were always 'this close' to putting it together, but they just could not - and that slim margin is why he's gone, IMO. Almost, almost, almost.... that ain't gonna get it done at this level.

[Sibelius Hindemith]

It was mainly about what happened in the Giants, Packers and Vikings games. I'll share the relevant quotes from the Corbin Smith article...

New York...

Starting off 1-3, New York ranked in the middle of the pack in most defensive categories, including sitting 15th in rushing yards allowed per game (118.8). Back in Week 2, Washington ran roughshod on Shane Bowen's unit, racking up 215 yards on the ground, suggesting Seattle would be able to find success with the duo of Ken Walker III and Zach Charbonnet.

But Grubb didn't seem to get the memo, coming out with a pass-heavy game plan against a defense featuring talented edge rushers in Brian Burns and Kayvon Thibodeaux as well as All-Pro defensive tackle Dexter Lawrence. While Smith completed nine out of 14 passes for 97 yards, the Giants harassed him with frequent pressure and play calling did him no favors as they ran 15 pass plays on 17 offensive snaps.

"He thought he was facing Stanford or something," a team source remarked, harkening back to his time dominating Pac-12 competition. "His confidence in his quarterback wasn't misguided, but he took one of our best players out of the game with his own stubbornness."

Knotted up at 10 apiece at halftime, Macdonald implored Grubb to get Walker more involved in the second half after Seattle mustered only three points in the first two quarters on offense. But two plays after Smith connected with Tyler Lockett for a 33-yard completion to open the second half, Metcalf fumbled on a quick reception, setting the Giants up for a Daniel Jones touchdown pass.

From there, even with the Seahawks only trailing by seven, Grubb became trigger happy, calling five passes on six plays on the next drive as they were forced to settle for a Jason Myers field goal. On the ensuing possession, facing 4th and 1 in Giants territory, he dialed up a play action pass rather than trying to run for the yard to gain, but Burns didn't buy the fake and devoured Smith for an eight-yard sack to turn the ball over on downs.

By the time New York iced the game with a blocked field goal returned for a touchdown in the closing moments, Smith had dropped back to throw 47 times while Walker had a total of five carries for 19 yards and Seattle had ran the ball a total of seven times with running backs. Completely abandoning the run game in a close contest, Grubb called pass plays on a stunning 87 percent of the team's snaps, leading to Smith being sacked seven times.

Following the game, Macdonald met with Grubb one-on-one, speaking with him on the one-dimensional approach that he felt cost the Seahawks a winnable game with the offense contributing only 13 points. The coordinator took the blame for the lack of balance four days later, particularly lamenting his inability to get Walker more involved.

"That's 100 percent on me," Grubb said at the time. "And my job is to make sure I get all our guys in the best position possible to win the game, and I didn't do that."

As a first-time NFL coordinator, Macdonald hoped that misstep would serve as a valuable lesson for Grubb, showing him that he had to adapt his philosophy to be successful scheming against the best defenders in the world. However, frustrations would only continue to grow, putting the two coaches on an inevitable collision course as they tried to navigate their differences.

Green Bay...

Meanwhile, with a more balanced offense benefiting the quarterback and taking some of the burden off his shoulders, Smith didn't throw an interception against the Jets or Cardinals in successive wins, and the Seahawks finally looked to be on the cusp of playing to their full potential.

But those improvements proved to be little more than a mirage masked by playing inferior opponents. Starting with a prime time home game against the Packers, Grubb reverted back to his prior ways, inexplicably calling 12 consecutive pass plays after backup Sam Howell checked in for his first game action of the year in place of an injured Smith early in the third quarter.

Not surprisingly, asking Howell to put the offense on his arm behind a struggling offensive line yielded mostly disastrous results. While his third drive ended with Charbonnet ripping off a 24-yard touchdown run to bring Seattle within 10 points early in the fourth quarter, he completed just four out of nine passes for 19 yards and took two sacks on 12 drop backs with his play caller hanging the young quarterback out to dry.


After the Seahawks forced a three-and-out with 10 minutes left in the game, Grubb promptly called three straight pass plays, leading to a quick punt. On the next series, Howell threw a horrible interception telegraphed to linebacker Edgerrin Cooper, all but ending the game.

Much to Macdonald's dismay, Grubb didn't give Charbonnet another carry after his long touchdown run even though Seattle had 10 minutes left to try to get two scores. Though both coaches had a quality working relationship, their differences in how they wanted to approach things on offense continued to create challenges during games.

Minnesota...

With the "marriage already on the rocks" according to a source, Grubb put the dagger in his chances of returning as offensive coordinator the ensuing week against the Vikings, this time failing to meet Macdonald's standards from a time management and game flow perspective.


After Sam Darnold escaped the pocket and found star receiver Justin Jefferson for a 39-yard touchdown to put Minnesota back in front 27-24 with under four minutes to play, Smith hooked up with tight end Noah Fant and running back Kenny McIntosh for 18 and 15-yard completions on successive plays, driving Seattle down to the opposing 37-yard line with 3:09 left on the clock.

Already in field goal range for Myers, Macdonald wanted to start bleeding the clock to the Seahawks advantage, hoping to eventually force the Vikings into using their timeouts as they positioned themselves for a tying field goal or a game-winning touchdown. But Grubb called another pass play out of shotgun, allowing linebacker Andrew Van Ginkel to crash the pocket and sack Smith for a six-yard loss.


An incompletion and one-yard pass later, Myers came up well short of the uprights on a 60-yard prayer in overcast, damp conditions, turning the ball back over to Minnesota. After the game, Macdonald called out Smith for taking the first down sack, but behind closed doors, he continued to bemoan the lack of balance and missing out on an opportunity for a big win, screaming at himself moments after exiting the podium in his post-game press conference.

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/seahawk ... ryan-grubb

[Michael K.]

I would have been fine with Grubb coming back, but his departure is on him. If Seattle's oline is the problem, for argument's sake, why are you constantly calling long developing pass plays? I don't believe it's about running the ball more literally - you have to scheme to what you have, Tom Brady played 20 years on one step and quick throws - didn't matter the quality of the oline. We simply did not do that. While Grubb had plenty of great concepts, you have to fundamentally attack with your strengths and avoid your weakness - Grubb simply did not do that. The offense rarely had any rhythm. I think if he had concentrated more on the quick passing game - that would have made a difference. The turnstyle oline and injuries cannot be helped - but I do think if you go uptempo into a quick slant, quick curl kind of plan, you have a better chance. I think Grubb will be fine, he'll land somewhere, but he didn't seem to learn from his mistakes quick enough The offense peaked early in the season while the defense peaked at the end - that shows defensive improvement and regression on offense. You don't fire the leader of the unit that is trending up. The defense phoned it in vs the Lambs - for sure - but the last half of the season they wee carrying the team and showed real progress - you can't say the same thing about the offense - it was just wash rinse repeat. The offense has talent - they were always 'this close' to putting it together, but they just could not - and that slim margin is why he's gone, IMO. Almost, almost, almost.... that ain't gonna get it done at this level.

Knowing what I know about how Grubb called the game at the U of W, I don't think the lack of tempo was his call. Defensive coaches like to let the air out of the ball, let their defense rest. I believe that was part of what MM wanted. I also think he did want him to run more, and based on what we have seen? That would have been dumb. I've said I wish he would have spread it out more and run, since our O Line got their teeth kicked in just about every snap when we ran the ball, but that was hardly a fire able offense.

My guess is the post season meeting didn't go well. Grubb might have said if that is how you think this team should operate with this personnel? You should get someone else. Again, IMO? It's a bad look. Ten win season, and only one coach gets fired? That sends a message to anyone that might be interested in the job. Might as well show up like Jimmy Lake to the press conference with a Run the Damn Ball hat.

[Michael K.]

It was mainly about what happened in the Giants, Packers and Vikings games. I'll share the relevant quotes from the Corbin Smith article...

New York...

Starting off 1-3, New York ranked in the middle of the pack in most defensive categories, including sitting 15th in rushing yards allowed per game (118.8). Back in Week 2, Washington ran roughshod on Shane Bowen's unit, racking up 215 yards on the ground, suggesting Seattle would be able to find success with the duo of Ken Walker III and Zach Charbonnet.

But Grubb didn't seem to get the memo, coming out with a pass-heavy game plan against a defense featuring talented edge rushers in Brian Burns and Kayvon Thibodeaux as well as All-Pro defensive tackle Dexter Lawrence. While Smith completed nine out of 14 passes for 97 yards, the Giants harassed him with frequent pressure and play calling did him no favors as they ran 15 pass plays on 17 offensive snaps.

"He thought he was facing Stanford or something," a team source remarked, harkening back to his time dominating Pac-12 competition. "His confidence in his quarterback wasn't misguided, but he took one of our best players out of the game with his own stubbornness."

Knotted up at 10 apiece at halftime, Macdonald implored Grubb to get Walker more involved in the second half after Seattle mustered only three points in the first two quarters on offense. But two plays after Smith connected with Tyler Lockett for a 33-yard completion to open the second half, Metcalf fumbled on a quick reception, setting the Giants up for a Daniel Jones touchdown pass.

From there, even with the Seahawks only trailing by seven, Grubb became trigger happy, calling five passes on six plays on the next drive as they were forced to settle for a Jason Myers field goal. On the ensuing possession, facing 4th and 1 in Giants territory, he dialed up a play action pass rather than trying to run for the yard to gain, but Burns didn't buy the fake and devoured Smith for an eight-yard sack to turn the ball over on downs.

By the time New York iced the game with a blocked field goal returned for a touchdown in the closing moments, Smith had dropped back to throw 47 times while Walker had a total of five carries for 19 yards and Seattle had ran the ball a total of seven times with running backs. Completely abandoning the run game in a close contest, Grubb called pass plays on a stunning 87 percent of the team's snaps, leading to Smith being sacked seven times.

Following the game, Macdonald met with Grubb one-on-one, speaking with him on the one-dimensional approach that he felt cost the Seahawks a winnable game with the offense contributing only 13 points. The coordinator took the blame for the lack of balance four days later, particularly lamenting his inability to get Walker more involved.

"That's 100 percent on me," Grubb said at the time. "And my job is to make sure I get all our guys in the best position possible to win the game, and I didn't do that."

As a first-time NFL coordinator, Macdonald hoped that misstep would serve as a valuable lesson for Grubb, showing him that he had to adapt his philosophy to be successful scheming against the best defenders in the world. However, frustrations would only continue to grow, putting the two coaches on an inevitable collision course as they tried to navigate their differences.

Green Bay...

Meanwhile, with a more balanced offense benefiting the quarterback and taking some of the burden off his shoulders, Smith didn't throw an interception against the Jets or Cardinals in successive wins, and the Seahawks finally looked to be on the cusp of playing to their full potential.

But those improvements proved to be little more than a mirage masked by playing inferior opponents. Starting with a prime time home game against the Packers, Grubb reverted back to his prior ways, inexplicably calling 12 consecutive pass plays after backup Sam Howell checked in for his first game action of the year in place of an injured Smith early in the third quarter.

Not surprisingly, asking Howell to put the offense on his arm behind a struggling offensive line yielded mostly disastrous results. While his third drive ended with Charbonnet ripping off a 24-yard touchdown run to bring Seattle within 10 points early in the fourth quarter, he completed just four out of nine passes for 19 yards and took two sacks on 12 drop backs with his play caller hanging the young quarterback out to dry.


After the Seahawks forced a three-and-out with 10 minutes left in the game, Grubb promptly called three straight pass plays, leading to a quick punt. On the next series, Howell threw a horrible interception telegraphed to linebacker Edgerrin Cooper, all but ending the game.

Much to Macdonald's dismay, Grubb didn't give Charbonnet another carry after his long touchdown run even though Seattle had 10 minutes left to try to get two scores. Though both coaches had a quality working relationship, their differences in how they wanted to approach things on offense continued to create challenges during games.

Minnesota...

With the "marriage already on the rocks" according to a source, Grubb put the dagger in his chances of returning as offensive coordinator the ensuing week against the Vikings, this time failing to meet Macdonald's standards from a time management and game flow perspective.


After Sam Darnold escaped the pocket and found star receiver Justin Jefferson for a 39-yard touchdown to put Minnesota back in front 27-24 with under four minutes to play, Smith hooked up with tight end Noah Fant and running back Kenny McIntosh for 18 and 15-yard completions on successive plays, driving Seattle down to the opposing 37-yard line with 3:09 left on the clock.

Already in field goal range for Myers, Macdonald wanted to start bleeding the clock to the Seahawks advantage, hoping to eventually force the Vikings into using their timeouts as they positioned themselves for a tying field goal or a game-winning touchdown. But Grubb called another pass play out of shotgun, allowing linebacker Andrew Van Ginkel to crash the pocket and sack Smith for a six-yard loss.


An incompletion and one-yard pass later, Myers came up well short of the uprights on a 60-yard prayer in overcast, damp conditions, turning the ball back over to Minnesota. After the game, Macdonald called out Smith for taking the first down sack, but behind closed doors, he continued to bemoan the lack of balance and missing out on an opportunity for a big win, screaming at himself moments after exiting the podium in his post-game press conference.

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/seahawk ... ryan-grubb

Sorry, the Giants scored the second most points they scored all year against us. Against Green Bay we spent an entire half watching Jacobs rip us to shreds. And he is firing a guy based on a first down pass against the Vikings, but not the DC for giving up 70 yards in thirty seconds and four plays? One pass play against the Vikings is fire able, but getting our brains bashed in defensively by the Giants, Packers, Lions, the Rams backups, the 49ers and an entire half of not stopping the Patriots isn't? Knowing that, would you take this job if you had any other decent offers?

Hey bud, here is a horseshit O Line and a HC and GM that will shit can you in one year if you can't figure out how to run the ball anyway. Want the job?