Threats to American science's dominance

[Walla Walla Dawg II]

I think you are underestimating the difficulty of truly world class research. But yes, let's dumb down American and let China take over. There is no guarantee that researchers who leave Harvard (or Columbia, or Stanford, or Johns Hopkins) are going to join the same department at another university in the U.S.

Meanwhile, I'll be tinkering with my backyard gene splicer.

I could care less if someone at Harvard loves America or not...

But I do not understand why Harvard can't take bright American students and turn them into the best and brightest in science, medicine, what have you... isn't that the point?

They say there's a shortage of "STEM talent" in the US... I call bullshit. And if there is a shortage in STEM talent... then fill the shortage by improving standards in math, science, etc... among federally funded public education. Highlight gifted American kids who have an affinity for STEM subjects and get them to the levels of people from other countries. Don't just throw your hands up and bring in half a million students from India and China.

Everyone knows they're doing it cause they know people from India and China will work themselves to death or for the lowest salaries available.

I agree 100%

[gil]

I think you are underestimating the difficulty of truly world class research. But yes, let's dumb down American and let China take over. There is no guarantee that researchers who leave Harvard (or Columbia, or Stanford, or Johns Hopkins) are going to join the same department at another university in the U.S.

Meanwhile, I'll be tinkering with my backyard gene splicer.

I could care less if someone at Harvard loves America or not...

But I do not understand why Harvard can't take bright American students and turn them into the best and brightest in science, medicine, what have you... isn't that the point?

They say there's a shortage of "STEM talent" in the US... I call bullshit. And if there is a shortage in STEM talent... then fill the shortage by improving standards in math, science, etc... among federally funded public education. Highlight gifted American kids who have an affinity for STEM subjects and get them to the levels of people from other countries. Don't just throw your hands up and bring in half a million students from India and China.

Everyone knows they're doing it cause they know people from India and China will work themselves to death or for the lowest salaries available.

Well, I wholeheartedly agree that we need to do something about improving mathematics capabilities, particularly in secondary schools. I think we have a culture where attitudes like "I hate math" and "math is for nerds" are accepted, and maybe even cool. We need to reverse that.Kids should grow up wanting to be smart, in addition to being athletic and famous and rich.

There is a numbers problem, of course. China graduates more STEM students than we graduate students in total. But I have the sense that a greater proportion of students are good in math in many countries other than the U.S.

No Harvard, no Columbia, is going to give a student the foundations of math. That has to come at the primary and secondary school. Then in college, and especially graduate school, students can apply their math knowledge to science, engineering, medical research, etc. (I think there is a sports analogy - you need to develop the basic underlying stuff early - speed, strength, flexibility, and a resilient attitude - before you can excel at any given sport.)