2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

[D-train]

Why wouldn't the Yankees re-sign him? FAs switch teams the VAST majority of the time

Why would he want to come to the M's? This argument baffles me. So we should never try to sign an FA again?

Where would he play without blocking Moore and France? Totally agree on this point. Not a good fit.

He's 32, will be 33 during the regular season, will likely want to play for a team that's contending now. If the M's sign any position player to major cash it should be someone just coming out of their arb years who is hitting the middle of their prime.

1. Both LeMahiue and Brantley are in the back end of their primes. They'll go to teams who present them the opportunity to win right now. The M's, while they're set up for the future, are not yet enticing to free agents who are at the same stage in their careers as these two. The Yankees on the other hand, have a boat load of money, are in a position to win now, and LeMahiue fills a clear near. Honestly, I would be surprised if Brantley doesn't go to a team like the Cubs, Braves, Padres, Dodgers, White Sox, Twins... I see Brantley as a road block to this year's roster too... they're rolling with Haniger, obviously... if they sign Brantley and move him to DH, what would they do with France?

I think fans get WAY too caught up it the "chance to win" as the end all be all for FAs. That is ALL fans care about (there isn't any money involved for them) so they think players MUST feel the same way. And of course players are going to say it publically to appear like some selfless teammate that only cares about winning. While it may actually matter to some, for most it just comes down to the almighty dollar. Cano is example A, B and C.

And besides, look at the Angels and the Padres this season. Rendon signs with the Angels and they have a .433 record and never sniff the playoffs. Could have signed the White Sox and led them to the WS. If we sign Bauer and Hand why wouldn't Brantley follow. We could easily go deep in the playoffs with that team. Chicken or the egg.

For the third time, this is why Brantley is not a road block.

Yes, that is why Brantley is so perfect. He wouldn't be blocking anyone. Even if Haniger is healthy and productive from day one, Brantley can be moved from LF to DH when JK comes up. I imagine they will want to give Haniger plenty of days off and DH rest as well so it wouldn't be like he would be stuck at DH. France then go to UT until 2022 when he becomes 3B.

2. No. The M's will be in a position to sign a 33-year-old veteran (position player... can't emphasize this enough, pitchers are different) when it's clear that they're in the window to compete. I doubt you could convince any 33 year old that the 2021 M's is their shot to win ball games. That's why I said... if you sign any position player right now it better be some 26-27 year just coming out of their arbitration years who is part of the long-term compete window and you can sell them on that... I'm looking at 2022 for this assuming the M's don't make blockbuster trade because there's some serious studs who fit this description (Lindor, Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Correa, Seager, Story). I propose the Lindor trade because it forces a superstar to us instead of relying on our shoddy chances in free agency is 2021 goes poorly - even though it was a free agent signing, it's similar to what the Padres did with Machado.

3. The M's are in a weird position where the bulk of their position players are young and MLB ready. Shortstop and catcher are the only 2 positions where I wouldn't be perplexed if they went out and sign somebody because JP sucks and I'm not sure our current catchers are part of the longterm plan. In the OF... Kyle Lewis and Jarred Kelenic have to be penned as starters for the next bulk of years... Julio is on the horizon and I'd just prefer the M's roll with Haniger until Julio is ready. + they have Trammel too... signing an OF just isn't in the cards IMO.

[D-train]

btw I have about as much confidence in Haniger being healthy and productive as I do Penny and Darrell Taylor and Josh Gordon leading the Hawks to the Super Bowl.

[bpj]

Some free agents also give themselves enough credit to have a winner built around them.

Or at least the understanding that even a team that is competitive now is likely to go through a losing cycle by the time their contract is over.

[bpj]

btw I have about as much confidence in Haniger being healthy and productive as I do Penny and Darrell Taylor and Josh Gordon leading the Hawks to the Super Bowl.

That's a good point, there's no reason the Mariners shouldn't pick up a solid LF this offseason. Make the kids earn their time up.

[D-train]

Why wouldn't the Yankees re-sign him? FAs switch teams the VAST majority of the time

Why would he want to come to the M's? This argument baffles me. So we should never try to sign an FA again?

Where would he play without blocking Moore and France? Totally agree on this point. Not a good fit.

He's 32, will be 33 during the regular season, will likely want to play for a team that's contending now. If the M's sign any position player to major cash it should be someone just coming out of their arb years who is hitting the middle of their prime.

1. Both LeMahiue and Brantley are in the back end of their primes. They'll go to teams who present them the opportunity to win right now. The M's, while they're set up for the future, are not yet enticing to free agents who are at the same stage in their careers as these two. The Yankees on the other hand, have a boat load of money, are in a position to win now, and LeMahiue fills a clear near. Honestly, I would be surprised if Brantley doesn't go to a team like the Cubs, Braves, Padres, Dodgers, White Sox, Twins... I see Brantley as a road block to this year's roster too... they're rolling with Haniger, obviously... if they sign Brantley and move him to DH, what would they do with France?

2. No. The M's will be in a position to sign a 33-year-old veteran (position player... can't emphasize this enough, pitchers are different) when it's clear that they're in the window to compete. I doubt you could convince any 33 year old that the 2021 M's is their shot to win ball games. That's why I said... if you sign any position player right now it better be some 26-27 year just coming out of their arbitration years who is part of the long-term compete window and you can sell them on that... I'm looking at 2022 for this assuming the M's don't make blockbuster trade because there's some serious studs who fit this description (Lindor, Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Correa, Seager, Story). I propose the Lindor trade because it forces a superstar to us instead of relying on our shoddy chances in free agency is 2021 goes poorly - even though it was a free agent signing, it's similar to what the Padres did with Machado.

3. The M's are in a weird position where the bulk of their position players are young and MLB ready. Shortstop and catcher are the only 2 positions where I wouldn't be perplexed if they went out and sign somebody because JP sucks and I'm not sure our current catchers are part of the longterm plan. In the OF... Kyle Lewis and Jarred Kelenic have to be penned as starters for the next bulk of years... Julio is on the horizon and I'd just prefer the M's roll with Haniger until Julio is ready. + they have Trammel too... signing an OF just isn't in the cards IMO.

Catcher? No way we sign a catcher with Murphy and Torrens and Cal in the wings. Talk about blocking guys.

I would love to have Lindor next year but we have a better chance at signing C. Seager next off season than Lindor.

[D-train]

Some free agents also give themselves enough credit to have a winner built around them.

Or at least the understanding that even a team that is competitive now is likely to go through a losing cycle by the time their contract is over.

Exactly and Bauer is one of those guys especially if they let him pitch every 4 days.

[D-train]

fyi Brantley was DH in 26 of the 46 games he played this season. Obviously not adverse to being a DH.

[IStillLoveTheMs]

1. Both LeMahiue and Brantley are in the back end of their primes. They'll go to teams who present them the opportunity to win right now. The M's, while they're set up for the future, are not yet enticing to free agents who are at the same stage in their careers as these two. The Yankees on the other hand, have a boat load of money, are in a position to win now, and LeMahiue fills a clear near. Honestly, I would be surprised if Brantley doesn't go to a team like the Cubs, Braves, Padres, Dodgers, White Sox, Twins... I see Brantley as a road block to this year's roster too... they're rolling with Haniger, obviously... if they sign Brantley and move him to DH, what would they do with France?

I think fans get WAY too caught up it the "chance to win" as the end all be all for FAs. That is ALL fans care about (there isn't any money involved for them) so they think players MUST feel the same way. And of course players are going to say it publically to appear like some selfless teammate that only cares about winning. While it may actually matter to some, for most it just comes down to the almighty dollar. Cano is example A, B and C.

And besides, look at the Angels and the Padres this season. Rendon signs with the Angels and they have a .433 record and never sniff the playoffs. Could have signed the White Sox and led them to the WS. If we sign Bauer and Hand why wouldn't Brantley follow. We could easily go deep in the playoffs with that team. Chicken or the egg.

For the third time, this is why Brantley is not a road block.

Yes, that is why Brantley is so perfect. He wouldn't be blocking anyone. Even if Haniger is healthy and productive from day one, Brantley can be moved from LF to DH when JK comes up. I imagine they will want to give Haniger plenty of days off and DH rest as well so it wouldn't be like he would be stuck at DH. France then go to UT until 2022 when he becomes 3B.

2. No. The M's will be in a position to sign a 33-year-old veteran (position player... can't emphasize this enough, pitchers are different) when it's clear that they're in the window to compete. I doubt you could convince any 33 year old that the 2021 M's is their shot to win ball games. That's why I said... if you sign any position player right now it better be some 26-27 year just coming out of their arbitration years who is part of the long-term compete window and you can sell them on that... I'm looking at 2022 for this assuming the M's don't make blockbuster trade because there's some serious studs who fit this description (Lindor, Baez, Rizzo, Bryant, Correa, Seager, Story). I propose the Lindor trade because it forces a superstar to us instead of relying on our shoddy chances in free agency is 2021 goes poorly - even though it was a free agent signing, it's similar to what the Padres did with Machado.

3. The M's are in a weird position where the bulk of their position players are young and MLB ready. Shortstop and catcher are the only 2 positions where I wouldn't be perplexed if they went out and sign somebody because JP sucks and I'm not sure our current catchers are part of the longterm plan. In the OF... Kyle Lewis and Jarred Kelenic have to be penned as starters for the next bulk of years... Julio is on the horizon and I'd just prefer the M's roll with Haniger until Julio is ready. + they have Trammel too... signing an OF just isn't in the cards IMO.

Rendon signed with the Angels because:

1. He gets to be in a lineup with Mike Trout and probably figured Ohtani/Upton weren't going to fall off a cliff

2. They paid him an absolute ass load of money

3. He probably lives in a mansion on the Newport Coast where it's 75-80 and sunny literally every day

The M's don't have the same selling points...

I don't see the point in signing old position players to big-money contracts now... not when the 2022 class is as loaded as it is. The M's will either go for it all or not at all in 2021... given what Dipoto has said, I'm banking on not at all in 2021 (all this "oh we figure we have a chance in 2021" shit is fluff, it's a lie and Dipoto knows it). Signing placeholders to big money is not a way to compete in the future. Which is why I don't understand the idea of going after Gregorious either. My 2021 proposal is if the M's truly go for it, but like Julio has lemented, there's good odds they don't go for shit this next season and then swing for the fences in 2022. I want proposals that think about the long-term...

Brantley already showed you where his priorities are when he signed with the Astros in 2019. I'm sure he could have made more money elsewhere... but he wanted to go to a team with WS aspirations.

I couldn't be further away from sold on Murphy and Torrens. Murphy has 156 career games at 30 years old. Torrens isn't talented enough to stick at the MLB level. Raleigh is fine, but do they really want to be rolling with a rookie catcher in 2022 when they figure on competing? Idk...

[D-train]

I have Brantley on a two year $12.5 million per deal. $2 million less than than they paid Strange Ass Gordon last season and $4 million less than they will pay Yusei "I can't figure out how to pitch" Kikuchi this season. Not going to affect the future in the least given the current payroll.

But if you guarantee me the Lewis and Haniger and JK will all be great in 2021 and Lewis, JK and JRod will all be great in 2022 then I will retract my offer to Brantley.

[IStillLoveTheMs]

I have Brantley on a two year $12.5 million per deal. $2 million less than than they paid Strange Ass Gordon last season and $4 million less than they will pay Yusei "I can't figure out how to pitch" Kikuchi this season. Not going to affect the future in the least given the current payroll.

But if you guarantee me the Lewis and Haniger and JK will all be great in 2021 and Lewis, JK and JRod will all be great in 2022 then I will retract my offer to Brantley.

Why would Brantley, coming off of .875 and .840 OPS seasons, which happen to be the 2nd and 3rd highest of his career, sign for $3.5 million less than he signed for with the Astros to play on a team that's currently in less of a position to contend?

I can't guarantee you anything... but if the M's ever figure on contending... you'd better hope Kelenic and Lewis live up to the hype... or else it ain't happening.