2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

[Donn Beach]

and i was saying, play Moore at SS, France at 2nd, sign a outfielder and decent starter, trade JP...but yeah, Dipoto hasn't asked for my insight lately

[IStillLoveTheMs]

and i was saying, play Moore at SS, France at 2nd, sign a outfielder and decent starter, trade JP...but yeah, Dipoto hasn't asked for my insight lately

"Dipoto hasn't asked for my insight lately"

Then why are you commenting here? Just ignore the posts and be on your way if you don't find value in the discussion.

[Donn Beach]

I haven't a clue what you are talking about, this the hot stove thread and I am giving my hot stove opinion. So you are going to tell me Dipoto isn't going to do it?..lol Did you bother opening the article I posted? Its interesting, it changed my thinking. I am saying defense at SS is overvalued. I don' t want a defense first SS like JP but I also don't want to pay a premium for a Lindor. I want a bat that can handle the less demanding needs of the SS of today's game. I don' t want both because you no longer need both

[harmony]

Dylan Moore has at least shown a major flash with the bat to indicate he's capable of being a very solid hitter in this league... and he's a quality defender. It's really no skin off this team's ass if he doesn't perform... they have nothing invested in him... they have plenty invested in Crawford.

The Mariners "have nothing invested in" Dylan Moore in the sense that the M's salvaged Moore off the scrap heap in November 2018. A few weeks later the J.P. Crawford investment indeed cost the Mariners Jean Segura, James Pazos, Juan Nicasio and the assumption of Carlos Santana's hefty contract.

But the 28-year-old Moore and the nearly 26-year-old Crawford each remain under team control for four seasons although Crawford promises to be more expensive as a Super Two and Gold Glove winner.

Baseball Trade Values assigns Moore a surplus value of $12.3 million and Crawford a surplus value of $32.2 million:

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/teams/478/

[IStillLoveTheMs]

Dylan Moore has at least shown a major flash with the bat to indicate he's capable of being a very solid hitter in this league... and he's a quality defender. It's really no skin off this team's ass if he doesn't perform... they have nothing invested in him... they have plenty invested in Crawford.

The Mariners "have nothing invested in" Dylan Moore in the sense that the M's salvaged Moore off the scrap heap in November 2018. A few weeks later the J.P. Crawford investment indeed cost the Mariners Jean Segura, James Pazos, Juan Nicasio and the assumption of Carlos Santana's hefty contract.

But the 28-year-old Moore and the nearly 26-year-old Crawford each remain under team control for four seasons although Crawford promises to be more expensive as a Super Two and Gold Glove winner.

Baseball Trade Values assigns Moore a surplus value of $12.3 million and Crawford a surplus value of $32.2 million:

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/teams/478/

Yeah and when Moore proves he's capable of hitting at around an .800 OPS and plays solid defense while Crawford flounders at a .680 OPS for the rest of his career, I bet that changes.

These things you reference... like Zips and Trade Value are again, a joke, and not indicative of much of anything when it comes to predictability. IMO Moore has much better tools in just about every aspect of the game other than defense, and even then, they're close. Moore will eventually prove to be an awesome talent, it's not his fault at 29 he didn't get his shot before... whereas Crawford has gotten every shot under the sun because of politics in the prospect ranking system.

I bet Dustin Ackley had a trade value through the roof his rookie season... same can probably said for Nick Frankin... both had clear red flags in their games and Crawford's stick is always going to limit him. If and when he continues to hit like a total shitter... the M's will have no choice but to look at other options despite his 1 season of quality defense.

[harmony]

Dylan Moore has at least shown a major flash with the bat to indicate he's capable of being a very solid hitter in this league... and he's a quality defender. It's really no skin off this team's ass if he doesn't perform... they have nothing invested in him... they have plenty invested in Crawford.

The Mariners "have nothing invested in" Dylan Moore in the sense that the M's salvaged Moore off the scrap heap in November 2018. A few weeks later the J.P. Crawford investment indeed cost the Mariners Jean Segura, James Pazos, Juan Nicasio and the assumption of Carlos Santana's hefty contract.

But the 28-year-old Moore and the nearly 26-year-old Crawford each remain under team control for four seasons although Crawford promises to be more expensive as a Super Two and Gold Glove winner.

Baseball Trade Values assigns Moore a surplus value of $12.3 million and Crawford a surplus value of $32.2 million:

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/teams/478/

Yeah and when Moore proves he's capable of hitting at around an .800 OPS and plays solid defense while Crawford flounders at a .680 OPS for the rest of his career, I bet that changes.

These things you reference... like Zips and Trade Value are again, a joke, and not indicative of much of anything when it comes to predictability. IMO Moore has much better tools in just about every aspect of the game other than defense, and even then, they're close.

I bet Dustin Ackley had a trade value through the roof his rookie season... same can probably said for Nick Frankin... both had clear red flags in their games and Crawford's stick is always going to limit him. If and when he continues to hit like a total shitter... the M's will have no choice but to look at other options despite his 1 season of quality defense.

Empty projections deserve little weight.

[IStillLoveTheMs]

The Mariners "have nothing invested in" Dylan Moore in the sense that the M's salvaged Moore off the scrap heap in November 2018. A few weeks later the J.P. Crawford investment indeed cost the Mariners Jean Segura, James Pazos, Juan Nicasio and the assumption of Carlos Santana's hefty contract.

But the 28-year-old Moore and the nearly 26-year-old Crawford each remain under team control for four seasons although Crawford promises to be more expensive as a Super Two and Gold Glove winner.

Baseball Trade Values assigns Moore a surplus value of $12.3 million and Crawford a surplus value of $32.2 million:

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/teams/478/

Yeah and when Moore proves he's capable of hitting at around an .800 OPS and plays solid defense while Crawford flounders at a .680 OPS for the rest of his career, I bet that changes.

These things you reference... like Zips and Trade Value are again, a joke, and not indicative of much of anything when it comes to predictability. IMO Moore has much better tools in just about every aspect of the game other than defense, and even then, they're close.

I bet Dustin Ackley had a trade value through the roof his rookie season... same can probably said for Nick Frankin... both had clear red flags in their games and Crawford's stick is always going to limit him. If and when he continues to hit like a total shitter... the M's will have no choice but to look at other options despite his 1 season of quality defense.

Empty projections deserve little weight.

Ah right, and Zips projecting Trout was going to hit .266 with 9 HR's 36 RBI's and a .730 OPS in his sophomore campaign was just full of legitimacy. They mean nothing... and neither does that crap trade value number.

Dylan Moore wouldn't be slotted to play 2B if the M's didn't think they had something potentially great there. An .855 OPS over a 60-game stretch is something JP Crawford couldn't dream of because he falls off the planet and hit's in the .400's for 2 months at a time.

Moore has shown the ability to hit for average, power, run the bags well, has a solid glove and plus arm for 2B...

JP Crawford sucks at hitting, has no power, is a mediocre base runner, has a great glove, an average arm at SS... and he's had more than double the PA's than Moore to prove it.

But yeah, JP is worth a lot more *barf*

[harmony]

Yeah and when Moore proves he's capable of hitting at around an .800 OPS and plays solid defense while Crawford flounders at a .680 OPS for the rest of his career, I bet that changes.

These things you reference... like Zips and Trade Value are again, a joke, and not indicative of much of anything when it comes to predictability. IMO Moore has much better tools in just about every aspect of the game other than defense, and even then, they're close.

I bet Dustin Ackley had a trade value through the roof his rookie season... same can probably said for Nick Frankin... both had clear red flags in their games and Crawford's stick is always going to limit him. If and when he continues to hit like a total shitter... the M's will have no choice but to look at other options despite his 1 season of quality defense.

Empty projections deserve little weight.

Ah right, and Zips projecting Trout was going to hit .266 with 9 HR's 36 RBI's and a .730 OPS in his sophomore campaign was just full of legitimacy. They mean nothing... and neither does that crap trade value number.

Dylan Moore wouldn't be slotted to play 2B if the M's didn't think they had something potentially great there. An .855 OPS over a 60-game stretch is something JP Crawford couldn't dream of because he falls off the planet and hit's in the .400's for 2 months at a time.

Moore has shown the ability to hit for average, power, run the bags well, has a solid glove and plus arm for 2B...

JP Crawford sucks at hitting, has no power, is a mediocre base runner, has a great glove, an average arm at SS... and he's had more than double the PA's than Moore to prove it.

But yeah, JP is worth a lot more *barf*

To be precise, this year Dylan Moore posted the OPS of .855 in only 38 games. In his age 26 season Moore posted an OPS of .691 over 113 games in 2019.

J.P. Crawford has a modest career OPS of .683 through his age 25 season.

[IStillLoveTheMs]

Empty projections deserve little weight.

Ah right, and Zips projecting Trout was going to hit .266 with 9 HR's 36 RBI's and a .730 OPS in his sophomore campaign was just full of legitimacy. They mean nothing... and neither does that crap trade value number.

Dylan Moore wouldn't be slotted to play 2B if the M's didn't think they had something potentially great there. An .855 OPS over a 60-game stretch is something JP Crawford couldn't dream of because he falls off the planet and hit's in the .400's for 2 months at a time.

Moore has shown the ability to hit for average, power, run the bags well, has a solid glove and plus arm for 2B...

JP Crawford sucks at hitting, has no power, is a mediocre base runner, has a great glove, an average arm at SS... and he's had more than double the PA's than Moore to prove it.

But yeah, JP is worth a lot more *barf*

To be precise, this year Dylan Moore posted the OPS of .855 in only 38 games. In his age 26 season Moore posted an OPS of .691 over 113 games in 2019.

J.P. Crawford has a modest career OPS of .683 through his age 25 season.

Ok and Dylan Moore has a career OPS of .750 and showed the ability to hit to a .855 OPS in only his second year. Over a 162-game stretch he was on pace to hit somewhere around 25 bombs at 2B and had a .350+ OBP.

A .683 OPS over 218 games isn't modest. It's horrible. The dude is a below average hitter. Today's game doesn't have room for a guy who is literally dead last in slugging % for his position. Idc how good of a fielder he is.

[harmony]

Ah right, and Zips projecting Trout was going to hit .266 with 9 HR's 36 RBI's and a .730 OPS in his sophomore campaign was just full of legitimacy. They mean nothing... and neither does that crap trade value number.

Dylan Moore wouldn't be slotted to play 2B if the M's didn't think they had something potentially great there. An .855 OPS over a 60-game stretch is something JP Crawford couldn't dream of because he falls off the planet and hit's in the .400's for 2 months at a time.

Moore has shown the ability to hit for average, power, run the bags well, has a solid glove and plus arm for 2B...

JP Crawford sucks at hitting, has no power, is a mediocre base runner, has a great glove, an average arm at SS... and he's had more than double the PA's than Moore to prove it.

But yeah, JP is worth a lot more *barf*

To be precise, this year Dylan Moore posted the OPS of .855 in only 38 games. In his age 26 season Moore posted an OPS of .691 over 113 games in 2019.

J.P. Crawford has a modest career OPS of .683 through his age 25 season.

Ok and Dylan Moore has a career OPS of .750 and showed the ability to hit to a .855 OPS in only his second year. Over a 162-game stretch he was on pace to hit somewhere around 25 bombs at 2B and had a .350+ OBP.

A .683 OPS over 218 games isn't modest. It's horrible. The dude is a below average hitter. Today's game doesn't have room for a guy who is literally dead last in slugging % for his position. Idc how good of a fielder he is.

To be precise, this year J.P. Crawford finished second-to-last among 23 qualified shortstops in the cherry-picked stat of slugging percentage:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx? ... &sort=15,d

... and 16th in fWAR:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx? ... &sort=22,d